Safe Speed Forums

Many of whom buy a car to get to work, and end up having to go to work to earn enough money to buy a car to get to work. You call it freedom. I call it daft.

It's a free country. You can have as many cars as you like. I have two. You can drive them when and where you like. I do too. But you, or was it Teebelly, said that cars are a sign of success. Success, my @rse. Cars make most people lazy and allow them to be disorganised.

How?

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Where I live (Cornwall), it is much easier to be "lazy and disorganised" if you have a car because it's much easier to live - full stop. Outside major towns and cities (which means in most of the county) public transport is non-existent and most need to travel more than five miles to buy food, to get to medical facilities, to get the kids to school, and even (shock) to get to work. So without their cars most of the county would be living at or below subsistence - and would need to put in a lot of effort and organisation just to survive.

Of course, they could do without their cars if they didn't need to see the doctor (who no longer offers home visits), and if their kids didn't need to go to school. They could, at a pinch, walk or cycle the five, ten, or more miles to the nearest supermarket (the old village shop having long gone) but it's unlikely they could carry the weekly shop home. They could all give up work, but the government would then no doubt call them lazy and "intentional unemployment" (even if it's because you can't afford to run a car) is all the excuse this government needs to deny benefits.

BTW, Cornwall has one of the lowest average wages in UK yet one of the highest costs of living. Cornwall is one part of the country where cars aren't a luxury - they're survival tools, so the proposed taxes would have exactly the same effect if slapped on food.

Before those prats in parliament tax motoring to extinction, they need to provide the infrastructure to make the car no longer essential. Examples might be to encourage home working, home deliveries, etc. Of course, you'd also need efficient and affordable public transport - but they don't seem inclined to provide any of that.

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Will

No, cars allow people to achieve more in their daily lives than they could otherwise do. It is a time management tool to avoid having to use up your life waiting for public transport or cycling slowly to Birmingham from Penzance. It represents freedom from the whims of others to be able to travel pretty well whenever you want, wherever you want.

Are you thinking that people lazily drive when they "should" walk. Yes, maybe, but for short distances only. Disorganized?? I don't understand this.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Don't get me wrong - there have been some truly valid comments made here, particularly about isolated areas and lack of alternatives.

By lazy I'm referring to people that would drive a 300 metre round trip to get a paper, and park right by the front door by blocking the pavement. Or the bloke I know who drives 150 metres from his house to the tennis club for a coffee. There are millions of journeys made each day that could be made by other means, and these woud free up space for people with a need to be on the road. Bring on congestion charging.

By disorganised I'm referring to those who make these short journeys by car because they're 'running late', 'overslept', couldn't be bothered to engage brain and think anything other than 'where's me car keys?'.

Bear in mind that I used to be a vociferous defender of the motorist in my ABD committee days. I still use cars plenty, but as one of an assortment of tools in my transport toolbox . You'll have to face facts that there aint going to be a massive road building programme. There aint going to be more space on the roads anytime soon. Roads are going to get more and more congested in urban areas. It's going to become more expensive to sit on your arse in your car. And your stress levels are going to get higher and higher. Mine did this, and since replaced a lot of driving with walking, cycling and trains (note - no buses ) my stress levels have plumeted and my overall health has improved.

I, for one, have seen the light and choose cheaper, if not free, alternatives where I can. I actually started by doing it to prove anti-car groups wrong, but it backfired bigtime, leading to me resigning from the ABD after a row with Chairman Brian Gregory. I'm not quite 'one of them' yoghurt knitting tree huggers, but at least they're not demanding the right to ruin my neighbourhood with pointless traffic.

Hear hear Ru88ell!

Board members here should remember that they are not a cross section of the population, they are here largely because of what SS is campaigning for. They are therefore likely not to have views like Ru88ell's, and are likely to reinforce the views seen on this kind of thread.

Actually a lot of the campaign here could be achieved by reducing the number of cars in the road. Ah, the glory day of driving in the 70s and early 80s!

And I've never had a vehicle on credit - paid in full every time.
My current car and 2 motorbikes (shhh - I'll get taxed extra) were all paid for in full at the time of purchase.

And I run my own business (where laziness and disorganisation would put me out of business).

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I am...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

<tongue in cheek>Actually, the entire problems of congestion, pollution, famine, etc. can be attributed to a common cause. The greenies and the government alike are skirting round the root cause of the problems. There are just too many people on this planet. We're not running out of resources, we're just using them too quickly and need to reduce the world population to a sustainable level.

Unfortunately, capitalism needs a growing population, and so addressing the root cause of the problem (even if we could get world agreement) would undermine the principle on which the most powerful coutries are founded.</tongue in cheek>

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Will

But as a percentage of the population that group is small, and as a proportion of the traffic that group is tiny. It's unreasonable to use arguments about the behaviour of a few slobs to typify car using members of the public.



This is repugnant. There's no standard of 'organisation' to which people should aspire, and in fact some of the nicest and most productive people I know are highly disorganised. If real people are happy being disorganised, then that is very much their own style and choice. Long live humanity in all its diversity!



And who is going to decide which journeys are 'pointless'? Are your standards the 'gold standard'? Or do people have a fundamental right to choose for themselves?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Express has a bit about "£4000 tax blitz to hit families "(http://www.express.co.uk/index.html)

and "Families living in better-off "nice" areas with good schools, clean streets and low crime could even see four-fold hike in their bills."

(my bold).

And if the bits in bold don't apply - high crime rate and or dirty streets - do we get a discount ----( Not from this gov you don't)

My car cost me less than £800 and I bought it outright. It costs me around £400 a year to keep on the road (less fuel) and returns 48mpg (that equates to around 9p a mile). Personally I think that unless you really NEED a new / presege car (a friend of mine used to work as a home care assistant and needed to have a car less than 3 years old) then buying a car on finance is a bloody stupid idea. I don't like the idea of borrowing money anyway, but on something that will lose most of its value in 5 years? Spend the deposit on a decent car and save up!

I resent the suggestion that I'm lazy and disorganised - I would NEVER consider driving to the local shop, or even into town because its quicker and easier to walk. If I need to buy something bulky in town then I usually blag a lift as its less faff and cheeper than paying to park.

I don't find driving stressful in the slightest because I can control my temper (didn't used to be the case, I used to turn into a raging psychopath behind the wheel). I will admit to getting a little bit frustrated from time to time but it soon passes.

Wilcove. Tongue in cheek or not that's clsoer to the truth than most people care to imagine.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Personal transport i.e. Cars, have been one of the greatest liberator's for the working class.

Notice the politocos and their cronies will not give up their vehicles or plane flights but if they get us off the road and the planes gosh think how much better it will be for them.

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I walk I cycle I drive and I vote

no, no you just pay a little less than £4000 perhaps £2000

or, could you pay more because those areas need more money

At the end of the day those that work will lose out, those that don't work won't because they have no money to take.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Next thing we'll get , policing by rate return - whereby a patrol in a "good " area earns the police force £xx, and if no problems, a bonus of £zz.
A patrol in a "problem " area nets the less. The only incentive is the bonus for an arrest ,minus any costs for not detaining anyone.

So in cost concious Britain, ruled by accountants ( sorry blokes) where will the patrols take place
How many unlicenced /untaxed vehicles and drivers will tey pick up .

The future of british policing - where we will see PCSO' s only in the coffee shop as the streets are not safe unless you can arrest someone - unless a PCSO can "persuade " a suspect to stop till a PC arrives ---cAN YOU STOP THERE , MR BURGLAR, TILL A POLICEMAN ARRIVES TO ARREST YOU"

Now sit back and wait for several thousand LAUGHING Policemen

I wonder how much Blair's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have contributed to global warming?

You can also offset the carbon at The Carbon Neutral Shop (formerly Future Forests). Just try clicking your mileage in for your car - I think you'll be amazed how much cheaper it is than your current road tax!

I'm not saying necessarily buy from them (it's all probably bunk anyway) but it could be a good tactic to expose just what a rip-off this "green tax" scam is.

I've actually gone and bought some trees off them myself. Not because I believe in any of it, but purely as a tactic. I'll be firing off a letter to Gordon Brown demanding a refund of my fuel duty and seeking immunity from all future "green taxes".

Anyone up for seeking a judicial review of these taxes if they try to impose them?

It's quite obvious from some replies that people here feel that their lives are under attack and getting worse. I used to feel that too. However, since making a few very simple changes I'm no longer under attack, and I'm enjoying my life much better.

By all means, carry on paying the voluntary fuel, toll and speed taxes if you want to. I don't want to, and won't be. I'm still travelling to as many places as I was before, and a mix of homeworking, car travel, rail travel, walking and cycling is the ideal life for me.

I pop back from time to time to remind me of what I've left behind.

There's a lot of talk on this forum criticising politicians and the Green lobby in addition to ideas promoting revolution. Fair enough, but let me mention one option worth consideration that so far has barely been touched upon. Take on the Government and the Greens and trap them with their own logic. In other words...Call their bluff

Every single one of us who owns a car or drives a vehicle of some description should hold their hands up to the Greens and Government and concede they were right all along about Global Warming. We then give up driving our cars and sell them off to be recycled. We'll need the money for the green taxes anyway.

Next, we accept the argument that public transport is a much more viable option than using a polluting, congestion-causing vehicle. With no cars on the road, there are no more buckets of money to be made by the scamera pratnerships. With few other options but to use public transport, the people who organise the transport systems itself find that the system cannot adequately cope with the increased demand. With no real investment in new buses & trains delay will pile upon delay for the majority of the population. Even your average travelling sales rep would have to use public transport. Within a very short space of time the environmental lobby will be praising us to the skies for this change of heart that will save the planet, publishing facts and figures about how much we've decreased carbon emissions.

However, I bet they'll secretly be panicking that they've created a monster,the liars that they are. The delays and the inconvience caused by the reliance on public transport will cause job losses and significant loss of business in general. As for all the haulage industry, take it off the roads and send all goods by rail and just for good measure the Government should invest a vast sum of public money to upgrade the antiquated canal system to carry goods. It won't work of course not if supply and demand has to be met.

They will of course, be telling us to walk and cycle to work (on Chinese made bikes) in an attempt to find a way out of the mess they've made of the economy. Eventually the Government would have to call it quits. But if they didn't and managed to hang on to the General Election, when they come up to you in the street and ask for you vote, just say to them, "I lost my job so you will lose my vote." As for the environmentalists, after all that I think they would never mouth off to any of us ever again.

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Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.

How high is your horse ru88ell?

Be careful not to fall off.



It is personal freedom that is under attack.

Do you live in a nice house in a nice area? Cos they want to tax that. Done any home improvements? Have a nice view, nice neighbours? Cos that will get taxed. Or are you going to move in to a nice inner city area, like Aston in Birmingham? Are these taxes optional, cos you chose where you live.
Have double-glazing to cut your home fuel bills? Oh they tax double glazing, so you can’t win there.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor