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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:07 
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Gordon Brown has attacked Conservative proposals for taxes on air travel.

His attack came as the first Climate Change Bill was published, introducing legally-binding reductions in harmful greenhouse gas emissions.

The Chancellor said householders could play a key role in reducing carbon emissions through energy-saving measures - but he said he would not be "penalising" the holidaymaker.

He told GMTV: "I am not going to penalise the holidaymaker and I am not going to penalise people who have got to travel for all sorts of reasons on domestic flights. I don't think the Conservative proposals are properly costed or thought-out and I think people will be very angry about that."

Mr Brown outlined plans on Monday to provide additional support for home insulation and an end to wasteful devices such as old-fashioned lightbulbs and standby functions on electrical goods.

Asked about annual targets for carbon emissions, Mr Brown said on Tuesday: "Just like in the Budget we set for the public finances targets over a number of years, we will set a five-year target for carbon emissions.

"You can't do it over a year, because you don't know - one year you will have very bad weather, another year you will have really good weather.

"Of course, that makes a difference to the use of energy. But if you do it over a period of time, you can get a realistic target that can be met."



So Tony can jet all over the place using more fuel in one trip than my car all year. But my car will be taxed off the road and I cant turn the tv on using a remote control. :flamethrow:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:13 
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I am so looking forward to having to replace the kitchens' very effective halogen spotlights with mini fluorescent tubes, and the chandelier lights in the living room will look just great with 6 of the ugly great things rather than slim candle bulbs.
You can also bet that the only country in the EU that will actually implement these stupid (and unjustifiable) regulations to the maximum extent will be the UK.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:17 
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The TVDrive/VCR concept is also buggered too - anything that has to wake up to record anything will be illegal.

Please, please, please can we have a revolution and get rid of any politician that subscribes to the complete lie of CO2 based global warming - the dishonesty is astounding.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:50 
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The 'banning standby' issue is an ignorant proposal and a complete non-starter. If the twattish civil servants who proposed this actually knew what they were talking about then they would (a) know that most of the figures for stand-by power consumption are grossly overexaggerated, and (b) many electrical devices consume huge amounts of power from a cold startup - often a lot more than if they had been left idling for several hours.

If they continue to ignore these facts and legislation follows then the electrical and electronic industry will simply turn their back on the UK, and grey imports of new products that we will be denied will flourish.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:16 
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anton wrote:
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He told GMTV: "I am not going to penalise the holidaymaker and I am not going to penalise people who have got to travel for all sorts of reasons on domestic flights. I don't think the Conservative proposals are properly costed or thought-out and I think people will be very angry about that."


Has he already forgotten that he's just done that with deperture tax?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:27 
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r11co wrote:
The 'banning standby' issue is an ignorant proposal and a complete non-starter. If the twattish civil servants who proposed this actually knew what they were talking about then they would (a) know that most of the figures for stand-by power consumption are grossly overexaggerated, and (b) many electrical devices consume huge amounts of power from a cold startup - often a lot more than if they had been left idling for several hours.

If they continue to ignore these facts and legislation follows then the electrical and electronic industry will simply turn their back on the UK, and grey imports of new products that we will be denied will flourish.


Not to mention that devices on standby give up virtually 100% of energy consumed as heat, and in around 3/4 of cases do so into a HEATED environment so SAVING the same amount in central heating energy.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:50 
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This is insanity.

Replace your nice halogen spotlights with fluorescents filled with mercury vapour and which have a dust-to-dust profile much worse than incandescents.

Stop electronics on standby - I'll just have to leave mine on full power all day then.

You have to laugh at these misguided idiots.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:33 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Not to mention that devices on standby give up virtually 100% of energy consumed as heat, and in around 3/4 of cases do so into a HEATED environment so SAVING the same amount in central heating energy.


It's literally 100% isn't it? All the light/sound/movement produced is coverted to heat once it interacts with the environment. So in any heated room the deciding factors for energy used are the desired temperature and effectiveness of insulation.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 13:19 
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Zamzara wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Not to mention that devices on standby give up virtually 100% of energy consumed as heat, and in around 3/4 of cases do so into a HEATED environment so SAVING the same amount in central heating energy.


It's literally 100% isn't it? All the light/sound/movement produced is coverted to heat once it interacts with the environment. So in any heated room the deciding factors for energy used are the desired temperature and effectiveness of insulation.


I suppose a bit of electromagnetic radiation might escape the environment; and there will be some loss of energy in the transmission of power from source (i.e. power station) to device associated with the load presented (I squared R losses).

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 19:23 
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Anyone know how to dim one of these low energy bulbs with a rheostat or triac wall dimmer switch? Or will I have to ditch all my dimmer switches?

I also use a normal bulb to work with UV sensitive material, because residual UV from florescents "fog" the material.
I suppose I now have to spend a fortune on a sodium discharge lamp instead. :oops:

Am I more responsible drinking beer out of plastic cups, made from oil, or glasses which use a lot of energy in production transport and cleaning? And should we give up consuming anything which makes us break wind? :roll:

I'm so confused, I just dont know what to do for the best! :wink:

However, I might just buy up a large stock of normal bulbs to sell on ebay in a few years! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 19:23 
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The light bulb thing really hasn't been thought through.

They flicker at 50Hz so some epileptics can't use flourescent tubes. They're far worse than LED car taillights.

(They don't bother me though, and I do use them)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 00:46 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Anyone know how to dim one of these low energy bulbs with a rheostat or triac wall dimmer switch? Or will I have to ditch all my dimmer switches?

Nup, doesn't work.

Ernest Marsh wrote:
I'm so confused, I just dont know what to do for the best! :wink:

Me too, somewhat.
I believe that with electrical devices indoors the first thing is... if heat isn't a waste then don't worry about it, they aren't wasting anything. Insulation is good though.

LEDs might be good. I'm sure it won't be too long before they are more available. They can be dimmed and they are small. You could have almost flat lighting on the ceiling and walls! I don't think they give out UV either. (except the UV ones, obviously) If they are run on DC then they won't flicker either.

I would like to be able to light the entire house from a battery. :)

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