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 Post subject: Eu Treaty Signed
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 16:40 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7141651.stm

What a sad day for democracy. I don't know much about the treaty (looking into it now) but it's certainly something we should have been able to learn about and vote on before it got signed.

The most slap in the face comment comes from current EU president

"Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Socrates, whose country holds the rotating EU presidency, said the treaty would create a more modern, efficient and democratic union."

- Democratic union? Which on the day it has been signed, wasn't passed via the approval of the public


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 16:46 
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It really is a travesty of democracy! The British public made it perfectly clear they wanted the UK to play no part in this, when it was still called the EU Constitution. "Change the name and they won't notice!" Fat chance!

The referendum that never was can be added to the election that never was as the hallmarks for this deceitful administration!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 16:55 
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We have been betrayed.

Democracy itself has been betrayed.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 17:04 
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Some interesting reading here; do look at the answer to the comment. Not sure on the validity of the arguments. Maybe some of our more learned members can cast an eye over the site and offer opinions?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 17:47 
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Brilliant read.

Thanks for link. It need printing out and <strike>Ramming </strike> delivering to No.10.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 23:03 
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I liked BBC news's take on this, this morning, where they had a shot of an enormous table full of custard tarts and pointed out that there would likely be plenty left for Gordon Brown when he arrives.

Left-biassed? maybe, but it made me laugh.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:29 
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Daily Express

Quote:
MR BEAN SIGNS AWAY OUR FREEDOM
Friday December 14,2007
By Macer Hall Have your say(18)
GRINNING Gordon Brown sold Britain out to Europe last night by agreeing to a massive expansion of Brussels power.

Despite having promised the British people a referendum, the Prime Minister put his signature to a new EU treaty without seeking the consent of the public.

After dodging a set-piece signing ceremony for the so-called European Reform Treaty, he flew to Lisbon to add his name to the document after other European leaders had left, making sure he did not feature in the official EU “family photo” of the event.

Last night his actions ignited a chorus of condemnation, with critics saying his Mr Bean-style sideshow was a humiliation for Britain, while his dumping of the referendum promise was a cynical betrayal. The new treaty removes Britain’s right to control its destiny in dozens of policy areas and gives Brussels the right to continue pressing the European courts to award it power over matters left in the hands of national parliaments.

Shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague said Mr Brown had left Britain in the worst of all possible worlds.

“With a stroke of a pen he has signed away a swathe of powers to the EU, but his sulky rudeness to our European partners means that he has actually managed to lose influence in Brussels. This latest blunder is another sign that Gordon Brown is struggling to cope as Prime Minister.”

The EU constitution on which Labour had promised a referendum was thrown out by French and Dutch voters in public votes in 2005.

Mr Hague went on: “The question he will now face, day in day out, is what democratic right he has to agree to the renamed EU constitution without letting the British people have their say.

“Labour’s election manifesto said there would be a referendum on the constitution.

“It didn’t say that if other countries threw it out first the treaty would be given a few tweaks and a new name and rammed through. But that is exactly what Mr Brown is trying to do.”

Under the treaty, Brussels will be able to interfere in UK policy on anything from immigration to the length of the working week.

It also emerged yesterday that the treaty will give thousands of illegal migrants new rights to overturn decisions taken by the UK’s Immigration and Asylum Tribunal – handing the final say on whether they can stay in Britain to unaccountable EU judges.

UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage said he spoke to Foreign Secretary David Miliband in Lisbon and asked him for a referendum just moments before he became the first British minister to sign the treaty. But Mr Miliband responded with “a hollow laugh”.

Mr Farage said: “This is just about the most thoroughly dishonest political process I have ever been witness to.

“This is a constitutional treaty with profound, far-reaching implications and for the British Government to pretend it is something it isn’t and deny us a referendum is monstrous.” Mr Farage was also scathing about Mr Brown’s failure to attend the formal signing ceremony.

“Whether you are pro- or anti-European, the British performance in there was cringe-makingly awful.

“Our Prime Minister wasn’t there at all, and in the group photo afterwards our Foreign Secretary stood on the end on his own, sending out the message that we didn’t want to be here.”

Aides of Mr Brown insisted he was delighted to sign the treaty. “He’s very pleased to be able to sign. It’s something he negotiated and believes to be a good treaty,” said a spokesman.

Before flying to Lisbon, Mr Brown tried to laugh off his perceived snub to other EU leaders as he arrived at the Commons Liaison Committee yesterday morning.

“I think you can see the priority I attach to attending this committee,” he told MPs.

The formal signing of the treaty took place at noon. Mr Brown finally arrived shortly after 3pm. The document was brought to him to sign on his own in front of a Portuguese TV camera as he sat on an immense gilded chair.

Liberal Democrat leadership contender Chris Huhne, a former Euro MP, said: “Gordon Brown’s no-show in Lisbon will please no one at home, while raising some serious questions about his good faith among our partners.

“This is inept and peevish behaviour.”

Tony Blair supposedly secured the UK a range of opt-outs known as “red lines” on issues like home affairs and social policy before leaving office. But the treaty imposes a duty on member states to put their own national interests behind those of the EU.

It also has “self-amending” powers, which mean further power grabs by Brussels need not be referred back to member states’ parliaments. Critics say this feature means the red lines are worthless.


My bold, hold on to your hats everyone!

Edited to add. and now that Mr Bean has signed away our country, I reckon we can now dispose of most MP's and their drain on our taxes.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 14:34 
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I personally find this very, very frightening...

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 19:16 
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Daily Express

Quote:
LABOUR ASK: WHY ALL THE FUSS ON EUROPE?

GORDON Brown agreed another plan to give even more control to Brussels last night – before the ink had dried on the controversial Lisbon Treaty.

On the same day Downing Street dismissed the outcry over the signing as a “fuss over nothing”, Mr Brown rubber-stamped the setting up of a so-called Reflection Group to plot the next power- grab by the EU.

It will look at ways to expand EU control over Britain’s economy, immigration, the police and terrorism.

The Prime Minister continues to turn his back on the opinion of millions of Britons. Thousands of Daily Express readers responded to our poll yesterday, with 99 per cent agreeing that Gordon Brown has sold us out to Europe.

And, in a clear indication of a mis-reading of the level of public outrage, a Number 10 spokesman said: “He signed the treaty. It was in public. What’s the issue?”

Yesterday, in another blow to Mr Brown, the Reflection Group – dubbed the “Wise Men” – is set to be led by former Spanish socialist premier Felipe Gonzalez, known for his fervent belief in a European federal superstate.

Mr Brown insisted last night the group was banned from looking at further “institutional change”.

But French president Nicolas Sarkozy – whose brainchild it is – said its job was to discover “the new European dream”. He added: “I want a politically integrated Europe.” The group’s formal task is to look at what shape the EU should take between 2020 and 2030. Tory Shadow Europe Minister Mark Francois accused the Prime Minister of failing the British people.

He said: “He signed the renamed EU Constitution without any democratic mandate. He offended everyone by arriving late. And he has opened a Pandora’s box by agreeing to a Reflection Group with no clear remit, chaired by a Spanish Socialist.

“Gordon Brown has failed Britain at this summit. If this discredited Prime Minister does not keep his promise to let the British people make the choice in a referendum, trust in his Government will evaporate.”

In another sign of Mr Brown’s growing isolation in Europe, missing from the summit’s final declaration was a demand by Britain that the Wise Men rule out any further big changes for the next 10 years. Neil O’Brien from think-tank Open Europe said: “Gordon Brown knows that the group he has endorsed will lead to yet another round of integration and more new powers for the EU. He must now rule out a further handover of powers.”

Bizarrely, former Dutch footballer Johann Cruyff has been tipped as another member with Britain represented by ex-trade union boss John Monks.

Meanwhile, Mr Brown’s allegedly rude behaviour, turning up three hours late, to sign the Lisbon Treaty in Portugal continued to dominate conversations in Brussels yesterday.

EU Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso was said to have told friends that he was “disappointed” with Mr Brown.

He added that he had believed in British punctuality and politeness but the Prime Minister’s behaviour showed that British manners had apparently changed.

Mr Brown also received a humiliating rebuke from former Cabinet colleague Peter Mandelson. Mr Mandelson, shortly to give up his job as a European Commissioner, claimed that Mr Brown was losing the argument over Europe.

Asked by the BBC if he would like Mr Brown to put the case for Europe more positively, he said: “In politics you don’t win an argument by putting yourself on the back foot.”

Meanwhile, it also emerged yesterday that MPs will only get a “take it or leave it” vote on the Lisbon Treaty.

And they will not be allowed to demand detailed amendments, despite the debate scheduled to last 21 days, almost 10 per cent of the parliamentary year.

The EU summit also agreed to send administrators and police to Kosovo ahead of an expected declaration of independence from Serbia. It also issued a tough declaration on Iran.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 01:46 
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I don't see why we moan about immigration, policing and other matters and THEN moan when many of these powers are given to Europe. Its power going away from Labour to the EU, which I actually believe has a lot more bright ideas than the current government. The EU is less about appearing to succeed to gain popularity than domestic politics.

Look at the Bali conference yesterday. The EU managed to pressure the US enough to give in to the agreement. Individually, the European states would have had no chance. Whilst the opening of UK borders to perhaps too many foreign workers is a problem, overall the EU has worked wonders for the economy.

I just don't see the big deal with some German telling us what to do, instead of people we don't like, such as Brown.

Also, you can't take opinions from purely Tory papers at face value either as the to the extremity of the agreement. Give it a chance before we slate it.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 02:16 
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STOPWASTEDLIVES wrote:

Look at the Bali conference yesterday. The EU managed to pressure the US enough to give in to the agreement. Individually, the European states would have had no chance. Whilst the opening of UK borders to perhaps too many foreign workers is a problem, overall the EU has worked wonders for the economy.


Oh goodie, they got them to back down and sign another fucking climate change agreement. Another agreement which will ultimately lead to more taxes, higher bills and less freedom for the general public. An agreement which itself resulted in policticians and campaigners flying from all over the world to Bali, in a week they also flew to Lisbon, and to Brusells, and there'll be some going to Kosovo. Evidently the worlds climate isn't in that big a state or this stuff wouldn't be happening.

So, in effect, the EU got the US to sign an agreement which will allow it to exact more control over it's citizens (in the way Labour does over us), impose more taxes (in the way Labour does over us) and raise the cost of living (in the way Labour does over us) under the Green banner (in the way Labour does over us). Man, that must have been so hard to resist for them. Woopie for us all, a success for EU :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:33 
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mmltonge wrote:
So, in effect, the EU got the US to sign an agreement which will allow it to exact more control over it's citizens (in the way Labour does over us), impose more taxes (in the way Labour does over us) and raise the cost of living (in the way Labour does over us) under the Green banner (in the way Labour does over us). Man, that must have been so hard to resist for them. Woopie for us all, a success for EU :roll:


And when the EU inflict all this on us, this government can say "Oh no it wasn't us we're powerless" :(

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:43 
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Daily Telegraph

Quote:
In Bali climate deal, US appears to backtrack
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 16/12/2007

The United States appeared to backtrack on the spirit of the historic Bali agreement on climate change last night, voicing "serious concerns" about future negotiations to fight global warming.

Q&A: UN climate talks in Bali
Commentary: Delegates depart Bali talks on a lot of hot air

Only hours earlier, US officials at the United Nations-led talks in Bali had been forced to back down over a clause to guarantee the supply of clean technology to developing countries.

Faced with condemnation of its opposition from one delegation after another, all in the glare of the world's television cameras, the chief US negotiator, Paula Dobriansky, finally declared: "We will go forward and join the consensus."

Afterwards James Connaughton, environment adviser to the White House, denied susggestions that US negotiators had overstepped their mandate. "I know the boss's mind well," he said.

Politicians and environmental campaigners welcomed the fact that America had, for the first time, agreed on the need for cuts in greenhouse gas emissions and signed up to a 2009 deadline for a full international agreement on climate change.

Gordon Brown hailed the outcome an "historic breakthrough", but cautioned that it was just the first step.

The UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, who flew to the Indonesian island to make a late appeal for flexibility, praised it as a "pivotal first step" to confront "the defining challenge of our time".

But last night the White House said that cuts in emissions should not be forced on the developed nations alone. It said that "larger emitting developing countries" - a reference to India and China - should also play "an important and appropriate role".

The US, which has refused to ratify the Kyoto treaty on climate change which it signed in 1997, agreed to the new deal only after a night and a day of high drama.

Developing countries had slogged it out over the last points of disagreement amid tears and boos until the US backed down.

The planned new treaty, which will come into force in 2012, would entail "deep cuts" in carbon emissions by the year 2050 and also sets up a global agreement to stop tropical deforestation.

At one point the UN's top climate official, Yvo de Boer, who had already had two nights without sleep, was in tears.

Shortly afterwards, Miss Dobriansky said America would not accept any changes.

As she and Mr Connaughton talked away from the microphone, the Harvard-educated representative of Papua New Guinea, Kevin Conrad, said: "If you are not willing to lead, then get out of the way."

Miss Dobriansky announcement of the US climbdown was greeted with cheers and diplomatic congratulations. The president of the conference declared that "we are very, very close", then banged his gavel down to signify a consensus.

Russia is to blame for the fact that the agreement contained no figure for the "deep cuts" needed in carbon emissions, The Sunday Telegraph has learned.

In tense negotiations late on Friday, officials of a smaller group of just 12 countries almost agreed a footnote that would have referred to the need for a 50 per cent cut by 2050.

A western official said: "We got to the phrase 'long-term goal' and the Russians set on the whole thing. They would not accept any target, not even in a footnote referring to the science."

Fearful that the Russians were prepared to scupper the whole agreement, other countries backed off.

"That is why it is weak," one source said. "We thought if we did not give in, they would pull it all apart."


Well that didn't last long did it?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:33 
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Dixie wrote:
mmltonge wrote:
So, in effect, the EU got the US to sign an agreement which will allow it to exact more control over it's citizens (in the way Labour does over us), impose more taxes (in the way Labour does over us) and raise the cost of living (in the way Labour does over us) under the Green banner (in the way Labour does over us). Man, that must have been so hard to resist for them. Woopie for us all, a success for EU :roll:


And when the EU inflict all this on us, this government can say "Oh no it wasn't us we're powerless" :(


It doesn't make much difference to me whether it's new rules and impositions created by our own government, or simply Brown and his gang of extravagent and power mad deadbeats enforcing stuff that the EU has concocted. Either way I'd like to see us defying this nonsense en masse.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 17:03 
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We should have known it would be foisted on us by the words of some EU bloke ( the quote is from memory " lets just give them referendums till they vote the way we want(i.e YES) "
One consolation however - no sign of tiny blur on the horizon for EU (for life ) President .(or do I speak too soon)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 17:29 
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The big problem here is that we just put up with all this.

What will happen now - nothing. As usual politicians have done exactly what they want to do - they don't give a toss about what we the plebs think, except at election time.

They know full well that whatever "major issue" it is, after a week or two it's done, we forget it and move onto moaning about the next attack on us.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 17:33 
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Graeme wrote:
The big problem here is that we just put up with all this.

They know full well that whatever "major issue" it is, after a week or two it's done, we forget it and move onto moaning about the next attack on us.


Or perhaps they might generate another "major issue " to preoccupy us and detract attention from the real one (Like hiding bad news ,or a good day to do so )

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 01:42 
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mmltonge wrote:
STOPWASTEDLIVES wrote:

Look at the Bali conference yesterday. The EU managed to pressure the US enough to give in to the agreement. Individually, the European states would have had no chance. Whilst the opening of UK borders to perhaps too many foreign workers is a problem, overall the EU has worked wonders for the economy.


Oh goodie, they got them to back down and sign another fucking climate change agreement. Another agreement which will ultimately lead to more taxes, higher bills and less freedom for the general public. An agreement which itself resulted in policticians and campaigners flying from all over the world to Bali, in a week they also flew to Lisbon, and to Brusells, and there'll be some going to Kosovo. Evidently the worlds climate isn't in that big a state or this stuff wouldn't be happening.

So, in effect, the EU got the US to sign an agreement which will allow it to exact more control over it's citizens (in the way Labour does over us), impose more taxes (in the way Labour does over us) and raise the cost of living (in the way Labour does over us) under the Green banner (in the way Labour does over us). Man, that must have been so hard to resist for them. Woopie for us all, a success for EU :roll:


So you would rather sit back and ignore climate change provided you don't have to pay for it? Even if in the long run doing nothing will cost you many many times more.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 23:37 
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I'd rather they stopped harping on about something which isn't anywhere near proven. There is such a huge amount of evidence stacked up against any temporary warming being man made I find it amazing that anyone can continue to ignore the scientists requesting reasoning being brought back to the table. The fact that anyone disagreeing is shouted down is laughable, science should always be proven - politicians should have nothing to do with it, and no one should listen to activists who would be out of a job if they accepted things weren't repairable by 'us'.

Just this year they had to admit that surface measurements had been taken badly and 1934 was in fact hotter than 1998 - despite it having been pushed and spun as a major fact and a massive indicator that it's getting warmer (some press still ignore this revision). The fact it hasn't got any warmer in the last 7 years now (global average, it was mostly certainly a cooler year in UK this year than last couple) is being ignored....

etc etc etc - I would go on, but I won't. I've had too many discussions with people which always result in the normal outcome of me being told I'm wrong by someone who's not looked past what is said in the newspapers and done some research into findings from both sides of the argument and therefore can't actually hold a discussion beyond the point of "but, if you watch an inconvenient truth..."


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 02:23 
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Ah, Good old Co2 and cars eh? don't you just love it?....... :)


The funny thing is that around 1990 the decision was made to move from the Stoichemetric ratio of fuel air mix to reduce Hydro-carbon emissions at the cost of INCREASING Co2 emissions from cars.

Then in 1997 the Kyoto thingy-me-bob reversed this......demanding a reduction in Co2!...

It would have been easier to leave the Stoichemetric ratio alone and install filters for the hydro-carbon emissions!

Of course we all know that the Co2 thing is Bollocks, and the the the film: "A Very Inconvenient Truth" is in fact: "A very Convenient Lie". Still, he got VERY WELL paid back for doing it didn't he? A Nobel Prize. Was it so that he didn't complain about being shafted at the U.S. Elections?

When they say: "Buy a car which emits LESS Co2" they mean: "Buy a smaller car which burns less expensive Foreign imported fuel because we want to burn it elsewhere where labour and taxes are cheap.

International agreements in the mid 1990's agreed on a 50% increase 0n 1995 levels of OIL usage worldwide by 2015! They agreed to burn MORE not LESS!

As for "Man Made Global Warming". Even the Earth programme being shown presently admits that the Ice at the polar regions has grown and receeded at least 50 times!

I LOVE Co2 ...It's GREAT! It makes tree's grow!

MY Co2 footprint is HUGE!....... :)


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