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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:19 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
nigel_bytes wrote:
I really do find that video repulsiveI


I find it repulsive too but nowhere near as repulsive as the diatribe posted by DeltaF. Neither of them alter the basic facts about AGW. And, if the video really is so counter productive, why are the sceptics not applauding it? To speak of genocide and gulags and to call GA a "Nazi-bitch" is unbelievably OTT. As is the way Lovelock's remarks have been taken out of context.


Dont shoot the messenger "dear" warmist.

Facts regarding AGW? Well the main one is, It_Dosent_Exist. (except in warmists heads).

As for the article, it tells it like it is.
Genocide is whats portrayed in that sick video, murder no less.
"Believe and do what we tell you or we'll kill you and your kids" is the plain message.
But then we've seen similar from the watermelons (red on the inside, green on the outside) before havent we?
Threats to strangle people in their sleep, lock up people who question the orthodoxy, gas them, stone them and my all time favourite from the true red core that is the green movement: "re educate" people, mao style in camps.

The desperation is plain in the green movement today, theyre going down like the titanic, which is why they continue to spew such disgusting propaganda.
GA might be in a poster stuck on your toilet wall kissing cute bunnies, but it dosnt follow she's a "nice" person.

Can you imagine if theyd targetted Gays? or Jews? or Blacks or Muslims in the same fashion?
And have you noticed the BBC hasnt made one reference to this issue in any of its bulletins?
Dont get your info from the BBC, theyre spoonfeeding you want THEY want to you see.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:00 
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There have been mutterings for some years within the EU(SSR) about making "AGW Denial" a specific criminal offence (Along with opposition to EU membership)

If all this sounds a bit unliky dont forget than across most of the EU(SSR) you can be prosecuted and sent to prison for questioning the oficial state approved version of history so introducing "Laws" that can get you sent to prison for questioning the official state approved version of science or the usefulness of the EU(SSR)itself is not really that big a step.

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blowing up dams and demolishing cities in order to return the planet to the agrarian age.


That was prety much Pol Pots idea wasnt it! I guess he didnt die and go to Hell after all, He joind the Greens!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:38 
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DeltaF wrote:
Dont shoot the messenger "dear" warmist.


Are you talking to me? Then don't call me warmist.

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Genocide is whats portrayed in that sick video

The generally accepted definition of genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. What is dosplayed in that video is not genocide.

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GA might be in a poster stuck on your toilet wall kissing cute bunnies, but it dosnt follow she's a "nice" person.

She isn't on a poster. I have no idea who she is outside that video but doing that voice-over doesn't make her a Nazi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism or a bitch

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Dont get your info from the BBC, theyre spoonfeeding you want THEY want to you see.

Just the same as all news mediums. And most subscribers only swallow what they want to believe.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 13:20 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Are you talking to me? Then don't call me warmist.


I quoted you, hence i was addressing you. Your expression regarding "AGW facts" is what drew me to do so and the reference to "warmist".
Like it or not, someone who believes in AGW "facts", not that there are any proven ones apart from the obvious non existence of the AGW mechanism must be therefore a warmist, a true believer

dcbwhaley wrote:
The generally accepted definition of genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. What is dosplayed in that video is not genocide.


Or people who dont believe in your ideas of AGW perhaps?
Looks like the start of a systematic attack on a group of people who dont share your world view.
Falls squarely under your definition, does it not?

dcbwhaley wrote:
She isn't on a poster. I have no idea who she is outside that video but doing that voice-over doesn't make her a Nazi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism or a bitch


If you align yourself with a sick ideal and give it your co-operation and tacit support, what does that tell others about your morals huh?
Birds of a feather, flock together.

dcbwhaley wrote:
Just the same as all news mediums. And most subscribers only swallow what they want to believe.


You made my point for me.
Look at my signature...... Believe NOTHING, question EVERYTHING.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 13:54 
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DeltaF wrote:
Like it or not, someone who believes in AGW "facts", not that there are any proven ones apart from the obvious non existence of the AGW mechanism must be therefore a warmist, a true believer


You appear to believe in this fact about AGW
Quote:
Facts regarding AGW? Well the main one is, It_Dosent_Exist.
Does that make you a warmist?. And if you believe that how do you square it with your "Believe Nothing" signature.

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dcbwhaley wrote:
The generally accepted definition of genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group. What is dosplayed in that video is not genocide.

Or people who dont believe in your ideas of AGW perhaps?
Looks like the start of a systematic attack on a group of people who dont share your world view.
Falls squarely under your definition, does it not?


No genocide is specifically about ethnic, racial, religious and national groups.

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If you align yourself with a sick ideal and give it your co-operation and tacit support, what does that tell others about your morals huh?

Lots of things but no that you are a member of a political party that was disbanded more than half a century ago.

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Look at my signature...... Believe NOTHING, question EVERYTHING.


You are very opinionated for a man who believes NOTHING :)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 17:09 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
No genocide is specifically about ethnic, racial, religious and national groups.


Whilst Wikipedia does mention those four "groups", the first few hits on searching for "define genocide" include...

the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
the deliberate killing of people based on their ethnicity, nationality, race, religion, or (sometimes) politics
the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

...so the definition isn't quote so, er, black and white!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 17:26 
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boomer wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
No genocide is specifically about ethnic, racial, religious and national groups.


Whilst Wikipedia does mention those four "groups"....


My definition isn't from Wikipedia it is from UN resolution 260A on Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide and is the legal definition in International law.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 18:28 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
You appear to believe in this fact about AGW Does that make you a warmist?. And if you believe that how do you square it with your "Believe Nothing" signature.


Got the wrong end of the dataset havent you?

I dont believe that AGW is a real phenomenon. If it was you could point to the proof and thatd be that, but you can only point to a corrupted set of data and a load of paid off green "scientologist" sychophants.
Itll take more than that to make me "believe" in your hypothesis, so in answer to your question, its squares nicely with my sig- i dont believe you, i want proof.

dcbwhaley wrote:

No genocide is specifically about ethnic, racial, religious and national groups.


Another name for genocide is mass murder.
Use whatever terms youd like to ease your conscience, it still involves taking a life because of a difference of opinion.

dcbwhaley wrote:
You are very opinionated for a man who believes NOTHING :)


Why thank you. Made my day that has, a genuine compliment!
Opinions are like assh*les, everyones got one, it just depends if you want to put yours on show.

So, do you? Specifically, do you think its right for greens to threaten and make such repugnant videos to push a pov thats got no factual scientific basis?
Or even if it did, do you think the ends justifies the means?

My position for the record is, Not a chance.

Your turn.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 18:35 
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Science by consensus is what the greenslime keep telling us.
The consenus says.... well, no it doesnt.

Sent: Friday, 08 October 2010 17:19 Hal Lewis

From: Hal Lewis, University of California, Santa Barbara
To: Curtis G. Callan, Jr., Princeton University, President of the American Physical Society

6 October 2010

Dear Curt:

When I first joined the American Physical Society sixty-seven years ago it was much smaller, much gentler, and as yet uncorrupted by the money flood (a threat against which Dwight Eisenhower warned a half-century ago).

Indeed, the choice of physics as a profession was then a guarantor of a life of poverty and abstinence—it was World War II that changed all that. The prospect of worldly gain drove few physicists. As recently as thirty-five years ago, when I chaired the first APS study of a contentious social/scientific issue, The Reactor Safety Study, though there were zealots aplenty on the outside there was no hint of inordinate pressure on us as physicists. We were therefore able to produce what I believe was and is an honest appraisal of the situation at that time. We were further enabled by the presence of an oversight committee consisting of Pief Panofsky, Vicki Weisskopf, and Hans Bethe, all towering physicists beyond reproach. I was proud of what we did in a charged atmosphere. In the end the oversight committee, in its report to the APS President, noted the complete independence in which we did the job, and predicted that the report would be attacked from both sides. What greater tribute could there be?

How different it is now. The giants no longer walk the earth, and the money flood has become the raison d’être of much physics research, the vital sustenance of much more, and it provides the support for untold numbers of professional jobs. For reasons that will soon become clear my former pride at being an APS Fellow all these years has been turned into shame, and I am forced, with no pleasure at all, to offer you my resignation from the Society.

It is of course, the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Anyone who has the faintest doubt that this is so should force himself to read the ClimateGate documents, which lay it bare. (Montford’s book organizes the facts very well.) I don’t believe that any real physicist, nay scientist, can read that stuff without revulsion. I would almost make that revulsion a definition of the word scientist.

So what has the APS, as an organization, done in the face of this challenge? It has accepted the corruption as the norm, and gone along with it. For example:

1. About a year ago a few of us sent an e-mail on the subject to a fraction of the membership. APS ignored the issues, but the then President immediately launched a hostile investigation of where we got the e-mail addresses. In its better days, APS used to encourage discussion of important issues, and indeed the Constitution cites that as its principal purpose. No more. Everything that has been done in the last year has been designed to silence debate

2. The appallingly tendentious APS statement on Climate Change was apparently written in a hurry by a few people over lunch, and is certainly not representative of the talents of APS members as I have long known them. So a few of us petitioned the Council to reconsider it. One of the outstanding marks of (in)distinction in the Statement was the poison word incontrovertible, which describes few items in physics, certainly not this one. In response APS appointed a secret committee that never met, never troubled to speak to any skeptics, yet endorsed the Statement in its entirety. (They did admit that the tone was a bit strong, but amazingly kept the poison word incontrovertible to describe the evidence, a position supported by no one.) In the end, the Council kept the original statement, word for word, but approved a far longer “explanatory” screed, admitting that there were uncertainties, but brushing them aside to give blanket approval to the original. The original Statement, which still stands as the APS position, also contains what I consider pompous and asinine advice to all world governments, as if the APS were master of the universe. It is not, and I am embarrassed that our leaders seem to think it is. This is not fun and games, these are serious matters involving vast fractions of our national substance, and the reputation of the Society as a scientific society is at stake.

3. In the interim the ClimateGate scandal broke into the news, and the machinations of the principal alarmists were revealed to the world. It was a fraud on a scale I have never seen, and I lack the words to describe its enormity. Effect on the APS position: none. None at all. This is not science; other forces are at work.

4. So a few of us tried to bring science into the act (that is, after all, the alleged and historic purpose of APS), and collected the necessary 200+ signatures to bring to the Council a proposal for a Topical Group on Climate Science, thinking that open discussion of the scientific issues, in the best tradition of physics, would be beneficial to all, and also a contribution to the nation. I might note that it was not easy to collect the signatures, since you denied us the use of the APS membership list. We conformed in every way with the requirements of the APS Constitution, and described in great detail what we had in mind—simply to bring the subject into the open.

5. To our amazement, Constitution be damned, you declined to accept our petition, but instead used your own control of the mailing list to run a poll on the members’ interest in a TG on Climate and the Environment. You did ask the members if they would sign a petition to form a TG on your yet-to-be-defined subject, but provided no petition, and got lots of affirmative responses. (If you had asked about sex you would have gotten more expressions of interest.) There was of course no such petition or proposal, and you have now dropped the Environment part, so the whole matter is moot. (Any lawyer will tell you that you cannot collect signatures on a vague petition, and then fill in whatever you like.) The entire purpose of this exercise was to avoid your constitutional responsibility to take our petition to the Council.

6. As of now you have formed still another secret and stacked committee to organize your own TG, simply ignoring our lawful petition.

APS management has gamed the problem from the beginning, to suppress serious conversation about the merits of the climate change claims. Do you wonder that I have lost confidence in the organization?

I do feel the need to add one note, and this is conjecture, since it is always risky to discuss other people’s motives. This scheming at APS HQ is so bizarre that there cannot be a simple explanation for it. Some have held that the physicists of today are not as smart as they used to be, but I don’t think that is an issue. I think it is the money, exactly what Eisenhower warned about a half-century ago. There are indeed trillions of dollars involved, to say nothing of the fame and glory (and frequent trips to exotic islands) that go with being a member of the club. Your own Physics Department (of which you are chairman) would lose millions a year if the global warming bubble burst. When Penn State absolved Mike Mann of wrongdoing, and the University of East Anglia did the same for Phil Jones, they cannot have been unaware of the financial penalty for doing otherwise. As the old saying goes, you don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing. Since I am no philosopher, I’m not going to explore at just which point enlightened self-interest crosses the line into corruption, but a careful reading of the ClimateGate releases makes it clear that this is not an academic question.

I want no part of it, so please accept my resignation. APS no longer represents me, but I hope we are still friends.

Hal

====================================================


Harold Lewis is Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, former Chairman; Former member Defense Science Board, chmn of Technology panel; Chairman DSB study on Nuclear Winter; Former member Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards; Former member, President’s Nuclear Safety Oversight Committee; Chairman APS study on Nuclear Reactor Safety Chairman Risk Assessment Review Group; Co-founder and former Chairman of JASON; Former member USAF Scientific Advisory Board; Served in US Navy in WW II; books: Technological Risk (about, surprise, technological risk) and Why Flip a Coin (about decision making)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 15:31 
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An interesting read from Conservative,home-Thinktank.
07/04/2010
The Global Warming Policy Foundation notes the political retreat from action against climate change
One of the big casualties of the recession has been action against climate change.

The Global Warming Policy Foundation - formed by Nigel Lawson - highlights an article by Lawrence Solomon of the Financial Post which lists the increasing number of political retreats from action on climate change:

•France: "France’s President Nicolas Sarkozy, who had vowed to “save the human race” from climate change by introducing a carbon tax by the time of the G8 and G20, was a changed man by the time the meetings occurred. He cancelled his carbon tax in March, two days after a crushing defeat in regional elections that saw his Gaullist party lose just about every region of France. He got the message: Two-thirds of the French public opposed carbon taxes."
•Australia: "Kevin Rudd, Australia’s gung-ho global-warming prime minister, lost his job the day before he was set to fly to the G20 meetings; just months earlier Australia’s conservative opposition leader, also gung-go on global warming, lost his job in an anti-global-warming backbencher revolt."
•Spain: "Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, his popularity and that of global warming in tatters, decided to gut his country’s renewables industry by unilaterally rescinding the government guarantees enshrined in legislation, knowing the rescinding would put most of his country’s 600 photovoltaic manufacturers out of business."
•Italy: "Silvio Berlusconi similarly scrapped government guarantees for its solar and wind companies prior to the G8 and G20, putting them into default, too."
•USA: "Public opinion surveys now predict that this November’s elections will see sweeping change in the United States, with legislators who have signed on to the global-warming hypothesis being replaced by those who don’t buy it."
•UK: " The two government departments responsible for climate-change policies — previously immune to cuts — must now contract by an extraordinary 25%. Other U.K. departments are also ditching climate-change programs — the casualties include manufacturers of electric cars [and] the Low Carbon Buildings Program."
It's not just the sceptical GWPF that is of this view. Fleet Street's greenest are agreed. The Telegraph's Geoffrey Lean blogged this after George Osborne's Budget:

"Greenery took up all of 52 words in the Chancellor’s 57 page budget speech."

Mr Lean may get a £2.5bn tax on the airline industry in the autumn (Sunday Times (£)) but this is driven primarily by the need to raise revenue rather than motivated by green politics. Lean himself noted that movement on the environment was "backwards" at last week's G20 gathering.

Meanwhile, China continues its large-scale opening of new coal mines.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/think ... hange.html

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 16:57 
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Oh good. The problem is going away because nobody likes the solution.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 17:17 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Oh good. The problem is going away because nobody likes the solution.

As opposed to "Oh good. The problem is going away because we're going to tax it."

The waning public opinion could be more related to the eminent scientists coming out against the AGW research and saying "There was no problem in the first place", as well as the weather trends going against the AGW predictions for a few years now!

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