Safe Speed Forums

Subsequent to my previously reported errant behaviour in overtaking cyclists at 38mph I have been offered the option of taking a course to teach me the folly of such behaviour. As it only costs the same as the fixed penalty (plus the cost of getting to the venue) I intend to attend, probably on December 31st. Watch this space for a report

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Personally, I'd rather take the points than have to sit through one of those 'courses'
I'd probably do my lip some serious damage, for starters.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Does one have to "pass" the course or merely attend?

Can one get thrown off the course and be given points for engaging in lively and thought provoking debate with the course tutor?

Please note that I do not mean being disruptive and would not condone this. I simply mean attempting a little debunking while there.

We were told that we must be "enthusiastic and open minded"; that carping about the unfairness of cameras would be a fail; and that we must demonstrate a willingness to increase our speed awareness.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

IIRC I read about someone who went on one of these courses and started on about RTTM and other points raised on Safe Speed.

They didn't do well and I can't even remember where I read it

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Prepare to be Judged

You're expected to be a dumbo. Listen and recant. Thinking, other than on the allowed line, is discouraged.
The money you pay goes to the organisation.
Your fine goes to the government.
No wonder the enthusiasm for safety courses.
Rather like industry......employers ask a "health and safety consultant/cy" whether their staff need training.......are they going to say no ?
So you get people who are NEVER going to do manual lifting of anything heavier than a ream of paper doing a manual handling course.....at 150 quid per person.
The guy doing the "instructing" at one of the many manual handling courses I have done, had a bad back ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

True. But seeing that the allowed line was "how to drive safely" that was no problem to me.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

And on one ,I asked how they'd move a filing cabinet - I sat back and let them ponder ,then suggested lying on back and using legs/feet at base - a bit of thinking that the "safety " mob hadn't thought of - I did comment on how it removed any strain on back .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

But if you had followed your initial training that you had to pass the driving test, you would not need a "speed awareness" course ?

And if fuel keeps rising as it is less people will be speeding, and less driving.
Forecast to be 145+ by the end of February.
My best-consumption speed is a constant 46 mph.....so don't be behind me !

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

That would seem to be an incentive to more speeding, not less: at least in urban areas where it is more dangerous

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

That's probably true.
But being lectured on how to drive safely by a member of an organisation with a proven poor track-record would be too much for me. I'd take the fine and three points. After all, three points for speeding hardly raises the cost of insurance now. And I'd save 30 quid.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I tend to drive "common rail" diesel -engined MPVs (and similarly sized vehicles) most of the time, and my best fuel consumption appears to be around 20MPH. Have other people experienced that?

Back in the seventiies when the fuel crisis was on , they reckoned cars at the time were most fuel efficient at about 56MPH (i think that was the actual figure), which led to the blamket 50MPH speeed limit (on NSL) at the time ( I also believe, this is why motor manufacturers used to quote fuel consumption figures at that speed). Obviously cars have changed a lot since then (most cars only had 4 gears then) but I would still expect the optimum fuel efficient speed, on free flowing roads, to be around 60MPH.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Yes, but it certainly puts paid to the claims of 'reducing limits to 40/30 for environmental reasons'

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Which organisation are you referring to?


How would you save thirty quid? Isn't the fine for speeding 60 pounds, the same cost as the course?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Who made that claim?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

During the fuel boycott back in 2000 (IIRC), when I had to make a tankful last me a week, I made a few discoveries with the aid of my trip computer:

1) My consumption was lowest on the motorway, and at a steady, light pressure on the pedal. Under such conditions, my speed varied from around 40 on uphills to around 90 on downhills.

2) Slowing down and speeding up for traffic conditions eats fuel. It's usually much better to keep a higher steady speed than to try to maintain a lower steady speed but being flummoxed by the other traffic.

3) Driving on motorways and DC's is much better than on SC's, for the same reason.

4) Driving into the wind increases your consumption by as much as 5-10mpg

5) You can save quite a bit of fuel by taking advantage of gravity assisting your acceleration on motorway on-ramps, rather than waiting until you're on the relatively flat motorway before accelerating up to speed.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Various groups. Here are a few examples I could swiftly find:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20660&p=207611&hilit=efficiency#p207611
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21326&p=213430&hilit=efficient#p213430
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21187&p=215380&hilit=efficient#p215380
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23481&p=230239&hilit=efficient#p230239

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I think most cars were petrol engined back then - and yes they've certainly changed a lot! Even as a student in the mid 1980s I can remember asking a thermodynamics lecturer if he ever though internal combustion engined cars would become efficient enough for it to start to become a problem finding enough "waste" heat to power the heater, and getting laughed at! Nowadays current diesels nearly all have separate combustion heaters because they can't keep their own engines warm at low power - let alone the occupants! I've got a trip computer with instantaneous and average fuel consumption. It's usually on "average". I do a regular trip from rural Cumbria to Glasgow. That's 35 miles of NSL SC, 5 miles through the centre of Carlisle, 90 miles on the M74, 6 miles on the M8 and a couple of miles on 30MPH urban roads. I find the average consumption is about 38 by the time I hit Carlisle, and much the same by the time I hit the M74 (I go through Carlisle very early in the morning so traffic isn't stop-start). It drops to about 36 on the M74 (always fast and free-flowing) but then much to my surprise, it goes up again, slightly, on the M8 - despite it being pretty awful traffic!

As an experiment, I then put it on "average", zeroed it and drove at a constant speed for half a mile or so. (not on any of the above roads!) At the end I'd turn round and go back the opposite way to average out gradient and wind speed. I tried that at various speeds and found that about 20MPH gave me somewhere in the high 50s to the gallon!

Interesting but for heavens sake don't tell Brake...

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.