Safe Speed Forums

I wasn't joking at all, for the reasons you quite correctly cited.

They need something to think about...

Anglers & fish??


What about all of us murdering motorists - we murder flies by the millions in the summer .

Some of us ,not too old remember how trade unions were taken over in the 60's.
Because of the apathy of members, a minority could take over and then what they did was done in the name of the majority.

Compare this to the anti 4x4 /smoker/fox/ speed cam / hunt lot. - same mentality, different cause.

Few months on - we find the same thing -

see this article -

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/articl ... _1,00.html

Pity the green lobby can't get to grips with the news on GM foods/crops.

lunatics have well and truely taken over the asylum, as I posted elsewhere, this is all class warfare and very little to to with ecological issues.

Its absolutely insane, maddness. This is the type of thing the police should be clamping down on, anti social, intimidation, 'yob culture'.

Of course, to catch those who do it requires effort and resources that the fines won't pay for.

Looking forward to buying my 4x4 and the ensuing protest. My ex used to have a BMW and most mornings we'd get up to find that some merchant had spat on it! Same thing really envy and ignorance. If I'd have caught the little f*cker mind.......

Any acts of vandalism are completly out of order and just demonstate the deranged nature of these "eco-warriers". There are far more important things to worry about then SUV's.

However, quite why people choose 4x4's is beyond me but I accept it's their choice and I respect that. In nearly every aspect there are cars that perform the functions of 4x4's better and as was pointed out for an equvielent amount of money there are far superior cars. An argument that is often put forward to justify 4x4's is that there are other cars worse in each catorgory. Maybe so, but 4x4's frequently come low down in every list. Yes there are cars with a larger footprint then 4x4's - but they are often better equipped, with better handing, cheaper and more aerodynamic. Yes there are poorer handing cars - but these are the bagain basement models which an enthusastic driver would be advised not to touch, buy nearly new instead. Yes there are cars with poorer fuel efficincey - but they have often got much better performance as well as being better equipped and much better at handing. Yes there are cars worse at towing, but most cars can perform this function adequatly, years ago my brother used an Mk2 Fiesta XR2 to tow a caravan, and it coped fine.

Personally I find the whole driving expierence very poor in a 4x4, and that includes my friends V8 Range Rover - distincly average performance with alarming handing and body-roll.

Saying that I would never condone a ban on SUV' as it could be me and my vehicle that the eco-freaks come after next. Whether I would activly oppose it I'm not sure - how many 4x4 owners gave too hoots when the rolling tax exemption was stopped for classic cars?

Anyone who drives a classic Land Rover I suppose.

THE original SUV

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Speed camera policy Kills

Which is proberbly not that many, in the big scheme of things - I don't see a fantastic amount of Landies on the road built between 1973 and 1980 where the tax exemption would be if it was still in place. Granted there are a few, so point taken.

Just because my car was built in 1981 doesn't mean I'm bitter or anything........

Bugger....how about getting an earlier one and swapping a few bits over...

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Speed camera policy Kills

Exactly my point of view - we live in a democracy - i personally don't like "Smart" cars - doesen't mean i'll go around throwing bricks at em - thats their choice.Its their money - they earn it let em spend it as they wish and i believe that their choice has to be defended otherwise the eco mob will having us drive what they deem is a fit car.

Could do! Trend now is for originality so don't want to mess too much, but it's interesting to note that those classics which cross the tax exemption date of 1973 fall into 2 price catogaries, with the ones with free tax worth a fair bit more. There is talk of it returning but knowing my luck it will be a rolling 30 years instead of 25 meaning I'd have to wait until 2011!

I understand buddy...matching numbers and everything but it will never be worth as much as a Shelby GT350. I'd go for the free tax...

I was restoring a Consul Classic a few years back. 100% original down to the number plate. It would have cost more to finnish than it could ever be worth. Finaly got rid as a unfinnished project. I guess I am just not the classic car kind.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Your post reminded me of this video, which I've been waiting for a chance to post

Though, seriously, a Mk2 XR2 has a kerbweight (IIRC) of about 880 kg, and so can only tow a trailer of up to 750 kg at 85% match - and there aren't many caravans that light. Most family caravans have MTPLM somewhere between 1300 and 1500 kg, and the tourer to which I aspire is about 1700 kg, which needs a car with a kerbweight of at least two tonnes and that is well outside the limits of even a Volvo V70 or Vauxhall Omega.

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Will

Ha, that clip is very funny! I'm sure my brother looked something like that! To be honest I can't remember exactly how big or heavy the caravan was as it must be c.1992ish, but he took 2 mates and they went to Cornwall.

I have absolutly no issue or problem with you or anybody else owning a 4x4, as you clearly have a need for one. But you must admit that the majority of 4x4 owners don't need one, but have one out of choice - life would still be perfectly possible with a 2WD motor. That's fine too, but don't you think that instead of trying to justify why they need one(when lets face it, they don't) and instead simply say that they have one because they want one, and they enjoy the 4x4 driving expierence. That I feel would give them a lot more credibility then trying to give rational reasons. Choice is a key principle of democracy which is why I would not want to see them banned, even though I personally don't like them at all.

Now if only I could find some way of getting people to stop taking the mick out of my car....... fluffy dice? Suits you sir!

But by saying that you are effectively accepting the antis' argument. Few people need a car the size of an S-class Mercedes, or one that will do 150 mph or accelerate to 60 mph in 6 seconds. If you concede the point that people must justify their car purchases on some kind of utilitarian basis, then you are opening up the floodgates to the sanctimonious nitpickers, and before too long you'd be allowed nothing bigger or faster than an Astra diesel estate.

Do you need a 2.8i Capri - life would be perfectly possibly with a 1.6 one, and you would do virtually all real-world journeys just as quickly?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

And then how long would it be before they start asking whether you really need a TV, microwave, home computer, hi fi, DVD player, iPod, mobile phone...oh...hang on..

Cheers
Peter

The problem is that the anti's demand 4x4 drivers justify their vehicle choice. It is very difficult to respond, "because I want to" when one of Berry's Bigots is screaming and chanting six inches away from your face. That said, the last time I saw one of Berry's Bigots slapping a "poor vehicle choice" 'parking ticket' onto a 4x4 (not mine) I did ask her why she was so against them. When she responded that they pollute and kill, I asked her would she be against a five-seat vehicle that scored five stars in both passenger and pedestrian tests, that returned over 35 mpg, and took up less space on the road than a Ford Focus. She said, "Of course not!" - so I informed her that the vehicle I'd just described was a 4x4 and asked whether she still felt her intolerance was appropriate. Suffice it to say that I'd be commiting a Godwin if I repeated the remainder of that conversation.

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Will

I agree that 4x4 drivers should not have to justify their choice of vehicle, and I would respect the ones that simply stated that 'I have one because I want one', rather then trying to justify often far-fetched reasons. By the way that was not a slur on you WillCove. But perhaps I'm expecting too much, in this politically correct society we live in it takes a brave man or women to stand up and say they do something contentious simply because they enjoy it. It's easy for me to sit here in a comfy house to say that I would respond to a protester by saying "I have a large-engined polluting car because I enjoy it", but I hope I would say that if it happened. However I'm under no illusions that it would not be franky scary to have a mob of lentle eating weird beard eco-warriers shouting and waving banners in my face. If anything like that has happened to 4x4 drivers then they have my sympathy.

And for the record, yes I own a 2.8 simply because I want one, I'm not going to try and justify it because I can't, a small diesel would be adequate for nearly all my journeys. However it does have an added bonus in that they are appriciating in value much faster then 1.6's but it's monetary worth has never concerned me much.