Safe Speed Forums

Roger & Botach - I agree a cyclist shouldn't attack your car, and that sort of behaviour isn't acceptable. Sadly I've seen that sort of agressive attitude in London, but not locally. Perhaps it's an issue with cyclists in large cities? Generally though I think all road users in those situations have higher stress levels so they all end up taking it out on each other.

On my daily cycle commute there's normally a queue at one set of lights, and when I'm coming up the inside, whilst traffic is starting to move off, of the 3-4 cars immediately in front of me each day in that stretch which has just started to move, I reckon at least 2 of those have spotted me coming up behind and move across more to the right, even though generally there's loads of room anyway and quite often they have accelerated away and so I don't catch up with them anyway.

Why do you feel your rear quarter is a blind spot, as your left mirror will give you a perfect view behind, and so be able to see any cyclists? When I'm driving and am stopped at lights/roundabouts, I always check my mirrors at the time of moving off, but that's the way I was taught to drive.

FD- to car drivers its called defensive driving - HOW MANY CYCLISTS EVER LEARN IT - THE MOTTO IS " BETTER TO BE A LIVE COWARD THAN A DEAD HERO".

THE LAST PLACE AS A CYCLIST WHO HAS HELD A LICENCE FOR 38 YEARS I WOULD CHOSE TO BE IS IN THE REAR QUARTER OF A CAR/VAN - WHY - THATS THE LAST PLACE A DRIVER WANTS YOU TO BE --- GOOD CYCLING AS GOOD DRIVING TEACHES US HOW TO INTERACT WITH OTHER ROADUSERS - THE BEST IDEA IS TO BE SEEN -

It's long been considered around the net that excessive use of CAPITALS is "shouting". It seems to make messages harder to read, but that might just be me.

The use of capitals isn't banned, and I don't need an apology (thanks!), but please stop and think if your use of capitals is necessary or benefical. There are bound to be net veterans hereabouts who consider it rather rude to shout. (I'm not one of them).

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Far better to use Upper/Lower case and bold anything important.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Botach - I'm sorry if I'm being thick, but you still haven't answered the point about why you think a cyclist will go into your rear quarter.

If there's a gap betwen the cars and the kerb, the cyclist is going to go up the inside. If the cyclist is moving faster than you are, then they'll carry on, undertake you and go past the car in front. If you're moving faster, then the cyclist won't be able to undertake you. If you're going at the same speed (which is unlikely for any length of time) you'll be going parallel. However, if there's sufficient gap for the cyclist to go through normally anyway, there wouldn't be any risk to the rear quarter or the rest of your car.

Now if you are right up against the kerb like you say you are anyway, a cyclist can't undertake you, but unless you've got streams of cyclists blindly running into the back of you because of you being right against the kerb I can't see the issue.

nOW I KNOW WHY DODOS ARE DEAD.
They're ALL thick.

Im trying to stop a cyclist LIKE YOU getting mashed between my rear end and the pavement. After 38 + years of watching idiots taking over the road i have decided to take defensive action - i.e. stop idiots committing hari kari
When i started cycling cyclists didnt have lemming like ideas. we cycled next to cars , got the respect of drivers (PROBABLY COS WE CYCLED SENSIBLY) .
Now we have idiots (LIKE YOU) who cant See the dangers of cycling at 4/5 mph , wobbling all over the place between pavementand rear of car. at best they hurt them selves, but no new laws say we car owners are responsible for cyclists lack of brain.
at worst we end up with damaged rear panel - so we have to fork up (via our insurance, which cyclists dont have to have) for damages to cyclist , and damage to our cars + of course anY points we get for cyclist ( as we are to blame , OF COURSE).

AND YOU ASK ME WHY I DONT WANT CYCLISTS IN MY BLIND SPOT.

THE AIM OF SAFE DRIVING , IN CASE YOU AINT SEEN IT IS TO TRY AND PREVENT ACCIDENTS , BY PLANNING. CYCLISTS DONT PLAN, AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, SO I TAKE MEASURES TO STOP THEM GETTING IN A DANGER AREA/BEING A HAZARD - ASK OUR BIB FRIENDS/IAM DRIVERS HOW THAT IS LOOKED ON --I CALL IT SAFE DRIVING. SO FAR I HAVE NOT HAD TO PICK A CYCLIST UP. STOPPED QUITE A FEW GETTING INTO THE DANGER ZONE , BEEN CURSED A LOT , BUT SO FAR MY REAR END HAS BEEN CLEAR

FD - if you cant see that simple fact - you wont be flying as a cyclist - youl be a mutilated dodo

Now that sounds a bit harsh, and I really have been on the receiving end of poor cycling which cost me 200 quid of insurance excess plus associated aggro. I could very easily go off on one about cyclists but I don't have a problem with the majority of 'em, even when they do come up the inside. I don't think that's a problem providing that (a) they make sure they stay in the mirrors rather than riding up through a blind spot, and (b) they make the effort to watch the cars and anticipate their likely intentions.

I have thick C pillars, so big blind spots. Cyclists who notice this and make the effort to be seen, or at least be cautious in case I haven't spotted them, aren't a problem. The ones who just roar up the gutter seem to appear out of nowhere, and if I've just started to move or am just about to it's a surprise I could do without. This doesn't happen often as I've got into the habit of looking over my left shoulder and also moving my head when checking the L/H door mirror to change the FOV a bit. I used to have a lot more "WTF did he come from" moments before then, but since then it's been less of a problem, so either cyclists suddenly got brighter or it was my own fault for not doing more to look out for them . But my rear blind spots are so big I could still miss a cyclist in certain circumstances, and I wish more would look at the car and think "jeez, he'll have big blind spots, I'll bear that in mind".

But my real concern about cyclists coming up the inside, actually either side, is that a few of them don't seem to make any effort to anticipate what the other traffic will do. There have been times I've been sat at lights with a turn signal on and some lycra clad plank comes roaring past just as I start to move off. Don't the eejits see that I'm going to turn across their path? Full marks for the ones who notice those big orange flashy lights on the corners of my car and hang back so they don't run into the side of me,and I can't blame the cyclists when drivers don't indicate ('cos that p sses me off as much as it must the cyclists). But the others... . They're the same ones who think red lights don't apply to them BTW. I can't recall who coined the term "suicyclists" but it's so appropriate.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Gatsobait - thank you - would like to quote bits of yours , but what to leave out.
Tonight prize example - following a learner in a 20 zone, with a cyclist in tow - over humps - where did the prat try to go - down the inside , in wet weather - - so i had pillock trying to go down inside and learner in front , and i try to give learners some courtesy ( believe that we as qualified drivers should try and show learners the good points of courtesy - it might rub off) -.
What these prats are doing in 20 zones is akin to tailgaiting , but on the inside , in other words trying to bully cars out of theit way - and if you hit one of these plastic hatted idiots,????

Dont they realise that at ten mph they can cycle in a straight line, what happens if i reduce speed to about 3/4 mph - they start to wobble - last place i want that to happen is when they're close to my car - the damage to car - nasty - but i dont like blood - id sooner upset a cyclist than hit one because of his stupidity.

I wonder if there's a certain type(s) of cyclists that can be relied upon to behave sensibly and another type(s) that give the others a bad rep. Couriers, IMO, belong in the latter group while I suspect the type who'd make sure their kids did cycling proficiency would be in the former. Or is it a personality thing? I wonder if two wheeled idiots also drive badly and behave irresponsibly as pedestrians, while someone sensible is going to act responsibly on the road as driver, cyclist, biker or driver.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

[quote="Gatsobait"]I wonder if there's a certain type(s) of cyclists that can be relied upon to behave sensibly and another type(s) that give the others a bad rep.quote]

Wonder how many of these idiots have seen the drivers perspective of their lunacy or how many of them actually hold a driving licence?


But again , drive through a supermarket car park - how do the idiots in cars (who give no quarter to pedrestrians) behave when on two legs

I thought some people on C+ were over generalising. Seems even they can be beaten at some things.

Your over emotional rhetoric Botach only helps to segregate yourself from the (over whelming majority) of considerate motorists. I hope I never have to share the roads with people who get as worked up as you, you're a liability.

I don't know, but I'd have thought that for practical reasons the majority of cyclists will be drivers as well (obviously excepting those too young to drive). Inevitably some will be idiots, many will not. I suspect the idiots will indeed be very poor at seeing the drivers' perspective while they are cycling, but I doubt they experience any moment of epiphany when they get in their cars. I believe the same is likely to be true of numpty drivers - the TIBMINs will still tend to act irresponsibly if you got 'em on bicycles and when they're on foot.

I don't think categorizing whole groups of road users by their choice of transport is the right way to go about it. Safe cyclists are fine, dopey ones are a problem (and I'd include anyone who says that it must always be the drivers' fault since they're in cars). The same applies to drivers, truckers, bikers, peds and horse riders. The problem is not mode of transport but, well to be frank, idiocy. We might expect that numpties would make up a greater proportion of cyclists since all cycling proficiency training is optional, but on the other hand I think the L test is woeful at preventing numpties from driving cars. Numpties worry me whatever they're riding/driving. Sensible road users don't.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Peyote, i'm not in the habit of trading insults , either on or off the road, or getting wound up over trivia as thats the way people get hurt.
You sound like a bloke i know - even as a passenger he blows off steam if we get cut up. I just shrug my shoulders and give prat a lot more room.
Gatsobait - wasn't trying to categorise, was just a thought that it would be interesting to see whether the selfish driver was also the selfish pedestrian. In the real world, as long as i get the chance to recognise them and keep that extra bit away , i'm quite happy.

Another amazing item - on my car licence i've got bit about licenced to ride moped. Been told that even after about 38 years on the road and about another 10 before that as a cyclist i'd need cbt. I wouldn't dream of doing otherwise.
How then do we let cyclists loose with no compulsary training??
Do we blame cyclists or society??

Fair one - I misread that bit where you said "How many of them... ". It sounded like the sort of rhetorical question that implied the answer was "not many" (as in "how many politicians really have a ****ing clue what goes on outside Westminster?" ) but I see that's just the way I'd read it.

IMO, I think selfish pedestrians are probably selfish drivers as well, and if they are also cyclists they're probably not very good ones. It's their attitude that makes them bad road users, and that applies equally regardless of whether they're on feet or wheels, motorised or pedal powered. I've ranted often enough about dopey peds outside Wimbledon station (no idea why it seems so bad there compared to, say, Morden or Putney) and I do think that those people would be bloody dangerous if they pay so little attention to their surroundings when driving. Fortunately the reverse is true, or at least I hope so.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

[quote=It sounded like the sort of rhetorical question that implied the answer was "not many" (as in "how many politicians really have a ****ing clue what goes on outside Westminster?" ) but I see that's just the way I'd read it.

quote]

Now thats a good question ( not rhetorical i hope) .
Almost as good as "how many politicians drive themselves and get done by speed cams"

Why shouldn't you momentarily slow down & let them get on with whatever they are doing...Is it really going to hurt you so much to stick an extra second or two on your overall journey?


Since when has it been your problem what other road users are getting up to?
So long as you are not placed in any immediate danger by what some other road user does, why should it bother you in the slightest?

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Fair enough, I wasn't trying to be insulting. I was just making a point.

We each let off steam in different ways, it seems you do it by ranting on Internet forums. I prefer to get it out of my sytem by going for a ride, steep ascents have a habit of diffusing anger for me!

Anyway, if you really are a different driver compared to your personality on this forum, then I apologise, and would be only too happy to share the road with such a calm and assured motorist.

Apologies if I caused any offence, it wasn't intended.

Peyote - accepted - point was a certain element of cyclists do the rest no favours by acting in the way they do . If i get a cyclist in front of me / turning right accross me - i'll try and help him - but last thing i want at traffic lights is cyclist of unknown quality wobbling around in my rear quarter - i like to keep all my attention on the 4wheeled idiots around.
Cycling to me was a means of getting from A to B - i enjoyed it ,but that was all - as for steep ascents - in my part of the world that was a normal cycle run- so if you like it -enjoy.

Botach - I'd hate to think what your blood pressure is, judging by the content of your postings. I'm sorry you feel you have to stoop to personal insults though.

You still haven't bothered to address the issue though. The only way I can see a cyclist coming up the inside would go into your rear quarter would be
a) if the cyclist is going faster than the car and when alongside decides to make a sudden lunge towards the car, or
b) if the cyclist is going faster than the car, but the car decides to start moving towards the kerb.

If there's not much of a gap left then it could happen under situation a), especially if a pothole jolts the bike.

If cars left a big enough gap, then situation a) wouldn't happen.

If a car needs to pull over to the left due to a fire engine or ambulance coming down the middle from either in front or behind, then assuming you use your mirrors, then hitting cyclists wouldn't be an issue. I don't have as many driving years as you, as I've only been driving for 23 years, but I was taught Mirrors, Signal, Manoeuvre. It's still in the Highway Code.

The fact that you continually refer to the rear quarter as being a blind spot does concern me, as it's clear you don't use your left mirror, as that gives you a clear view of the inside of the road behind you and so you'd be able to see cyclists, as in my car I'm fully aware of what's around me and the rear quarter isn't a blind spot.

In 30+ years of cycling, I've seen the overwhelming majority of cars don't seem to have a problem in leaving a big enough gap for cyclists to get through, and as I posted earlier, the small no. that don't, generally spot me coming up the inside and move across, and I try and acknowldge my thanks.

Gatsobait - you're right. I think couriers are a breed apart. I try to avoid driving in London, but I'm horrified at the idiots jumping lights, going on pavements etc etc. I think in the same way, it often seems to be a BMW Series 3 driver who's a real plonker on the roads.