Safe Speed Forums

SPECS cameras don't make motorways safer. On the contrary they encourage all the traffic to sit side by side for prolonged periods, which hugely increases the risk of "side swipes". A range of different speeds between all the different vehicles is actually good for safety, it means vehicles don't stay in the danger zone for as long when overtaking, and drivers are more alert and less likely to lose attention and crash. We know that lack of attention causes about 10 times more crashes than speeding - last thing we should do is put devices on the motorway that make everyone pay less attention to each other.

However, I have been driving in the UK for 6 years now, and I must say that I have noticed a reduction in fast driving in inappropriate places - let's face it, that must be a good thing.

Right! Heheh, what a ludicrous argument. You verge on the sanctimonious, no personal offence intended.

So if we all dart and weave in and out fast, slow, gas, brake, it will keep us awake. Right.

These arguments are all simply conjecture and supposition, and they are all (both sides) founded in imagination. I think the truth is closer to this: Some people will crash, some won't. Just as some people will walk into a lamppost, some won't. But doing it slower hurts less.

Personal offence taken, I'm afraid!

Before you accuse me of being sanctimonious...

Steady on JT... Let's give Ling a chance to find his feet in this environment....

(her)

Ahh. Interesting...

At least they do a basic job of making people aware that there are limits and that if you drive at speed regardless, it is simply a matter of time before you lose your licence.

Your views are not a significant political factor, therefore it doesn't matter what you think. Because in reality very little will change, however much you jump up and down

It is better than fast driving for getting my adreneline going!

What on earth are you all doing? Some boring job with no risk?

Now I know it is good to have a group who sort of provide a check and balance to any significant excess by "the system", but really, are speed cameras the worst thing about the UK and something that should be on a priority list of "things that need something done about them"? - Nahhh.

I would repeat my view that it seems that most people are quite satisfied by their effect, and that it this were not the case then Safe Speed would be a significant movement instead of something 99% of people have never heard of, and care less about.

I hate all the santimonious rubbish by people who intrinsically know that they have the ability and skill to know the correct safe speed limit for any piece of road.

……certainly they would fail a driving test if they had to take one at the drop of a hat, or if after YOUR next journey a driving examiner popped up from the back seat and said "I've been observing you for the last 40 mins and you've failed".

The point being that in any drive speed does contribute to shorter reaction periods, more braking, more likelihood of sudden changes of direction etc.

Speed cameras that make traffic behave more consistently really are appreciated by most drivers.

but most of the rest of us simply aren't listening!

…..instead of trying to change things the vast majority of people support!

we have speed cameras and - SHOCK - they make a (good) difference!

Hi Ling,

I've been driving and riding in the UK, Germany, Spain, Italy and Cyprus for over 20 years. And without any shadow of a doubt the standard of driving in the UK is slowly deteriorating, and thats a bad thing.
Actually, I agree with you about speed cameras, I don't view them as an immediate threat to my licence or livlehood; those that do perhaps need to examine the way they drive rather than blaming the cameras.
Nonetheless, speed cameras appear to be seen as the panacea of road safety schemes and as a result there are now less traffic police than there were when I began driving. People know this and so are becoming more and more bold in ignoring the law and the highway code. Violations of right of way, traffic light infrigements, motorway behaviour (to name but three) are all things the average driver has to be increasingly aware of if they are to avoid an accident.
My wife drives many miles each year and I trust her implicitly. Yet when she goes out on the road (to her mums for example some 150 miles away) my main concern is not about her behaviour, but whether she will be involved in an incident with some idiot whose bad driving has gone unnoticed by the authorities for year upon year.

Personal offence taken, I'm afraid!

...I would say that speed cameras have proved themselves to be a fantastic contribution to the toal solution...

I think Paul is concerned that my last post was perhaps a bit confrontational

You need to really see trucks in China with a lack of applied laws and no speed limiters. Very dangerous indeed. But with your argument, you would encourage speed differentials. That is complete madness. To suggest that speed differentials make things safer is ludicrous. It might make you have lightning reactions (like an F1 driver in the rain or fog maybe) but is is MORE dangerous in real-life with normal people of all age ranges, tuning radios, picking noses and chatting in their cars.

Aircraft, trains, ships, even bicycles in China; the system is designed to REDUCE speed differentials.

Simply wait patiently behind the trucks? What is so important in your life that you get so frustrated. Truck drivers in the UK I have seen are by far the most professional road users.

You yourself may be an exceptional driver; until everyone on the road is an exceptional driver, the system must be idiot-proof and while it is never 100%, the UK has one of the best country's systems I have ever driven in.

Hi Ling.

(I hope I speak for everyone else here when I say)
I apologise in advance for seeming like I’m jumping down your throat. Be assured I’m not attacking you personally but I really would like to know why some people still support the speed camera policy when we demonstrate how it is failing.

But what does that have to do with safety?

Everything

There was the recent moratorium............

Oh, I must have missed that! Must have been very important.

You’ll find real safespeeders are responsible enough to not drive 'fast', on public roads, to get the adrenaline going.

SafeSpeeders! Heh. Dig your hole, boy.

Some people have ‘fag breaks’, I have ‘safespeed breaks’

Keep digging... this will look REALLY good in any balanced discussion.


You missed my point, speed cameras are not the problem, it’s the (blatant) lies perpetrated by the authorities at the expense of better solutions, to protect their own worthless interests. If we let this slip then we may as well be taking Librium.

You think these are blatant lies by the authorities? I come from China. We have the luxury of living in a free country where you are not rounded up and imprisoned and/or shot for your views, your family is not at risk of being (oficially)ostracised by society if you are criticised by the state authorities and you do not have to witness houses being repossessed and people arrested for airing a view. This is a VERY minor issue (speed cameras), and you are all (sweeping statement but it has a point) obsessed slightly. No offence intended.

In that case I would say you’ve not been keeping up with the news. Safespeed has got a mention in almost every article/news report on related subjects.

Get a mention? Is that your definition of significant. Changing policy is the only measure.

We already have this to a great extent, like when the roads are wet, icy, muddy, bendy, obstructed, unclear, pedestrianised.......
A driver who religiously remains at the speed limit will soon fall off the road or kill someone.

That is a silly argument. No one suggests that, and you know it.

I would agree, the great majority of drivers would indeed fail, but ask yourself why and why is this allowed to continue?

Why what is allowed to continue? Imperfect drivers? Because a) this is a free country within the law and b) perfection is unattainable.

Not if proper observation and consideration is applied (I’ll let WildCat explain C.O.A.S.T.).

Oh, rubbish. The faster you go, the faster you need to react. It's called physics.

Here I vehemently disagree. If speed cameras truly worked we would have a near 100% reduction of KSIs at camera sites, yet they’re only reporting 40-70% reduction; this falls to ~11% when accounting for just RTTM, so something is quite obviously wrong. Add to that the panic braking and speedo watching..........

Consistency is what counts. Unexpected inconsistency is a dangerous thing. If every driver was completely inconsistent it would be hell and VERY dangerous. Ergo, if everyone drives more consistently, everyone is safer. Witness a car doing 30mph on the motorway when everyone else is doing 70-ish. That inconsistency is potentially dangerous.

Which is partly the point of the Safespeed campaign, to enlighten the masses. There will be some who won’t even consider opposing arguments, they have dug themselves into position and aren’t for turning, but I don’t believe these make up the majority of drivers.

The masses may just be right? That's how it works in the UKm, so I'm led to believe.


Now I must challenge you to substantiate your claims:


I reckon that is entirely your opinion, surveys prove otherwise (so long as the relevent question is being asked).


The lack of the fall in KSI rate since cameras were introduced would suggest otherwise. They can make a good difference, but not with the way they’re currently being used.

... except that I would say that speed cameras have proved themselves to be a fantastic contribution to the toal solution (which will never be acheived of course).