Safe Speed Forums

Why pick on anpr ?
There are loads of video systems being used by various councils and agencies. The police reckon to have information available to them from all very soon. Supermarkets, petrol stations....and don't forget, many of the truvelo cameras can also be used as real-time monitors
As for the ICO....any request to the police is usually followed by a refusal....then the ico stick their fingers in...then the police release some data and say the rest is "confidential"....then the ico bugger off.
Scene.
Carpark.
Car broken into.....cctv camera about 20 metres away. Go to the office. No, you can't look at the tapes. Data protection act, subject access. Tape given. Tape edited to remove ALL persons other than the driver of the vehicle. Even the crook/s had been removed. No police action.
The ico is the largest waste of public money around. Powerless, gutless and worthless. The only use for video survellance is to give the guys operating it some work.

Liberty have been campaigning against this sort of thing for years.

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk

But I haven't ONCE heard them mention ANPR databases.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Why just ANPR - thats just the system that collects the data .


What about the old official secrets act clearance ----did they go out and collect it on you -and how many agencies were party to the data??

how is it that our servants (the Authorities) are watching us (their Masters) anyway, surely it should be the other way round?

That's because you're delusional.
You are still on "democracy": The rule of the people by the people.

Whereas it has always, in this country, been: "democracy": The people being ruled by the government.

You elect them, they do what you want ?

Wrong. You elect them, they do what they want.

Worse. You elect them, they do what they want. And the people REALLY running the show are not elected EVER, are not responsible to anyone EVER and generally are doing their level best to ensure you don't know who they are and that you are only as free as they let you be.

People, generally, are so trusting. You put cameras everywhere (even my local s/mart has cameras in the roof over the changing rooms.....(to make sure the customers are safe) ) to protect them. Meanwhile, they get mugged around the corner from the camera. Their cards are stolen and used to fill a stolen car up with petrol (s/mart again) and the police then give them a crime number. Even if the crime is recorded THEY will never get to see the recording (data protection again).

Nobody ever questions the people running the show....who are the ones who have been mugging us for years anyway !

The people running the cameras are usually paid a pittance, so they watch you changing in your house/flat/tent.....and then sell the cds' for cash....some even get locked-up for that.

All the data about where you are, were and when you were there is stored for decades until "they" have a use for it. (yes, I know it's dumped after 1 day/ 1 month/ 1 year/ 1 decade.....so they say....but it is so easy to evade the controls.) The police, meanwhile, have been evading controls on dna retention since they took the first sample.....until they got the green light to keep it, when they announced they'd always kept it anyway.

You're soon going to need an id card...which will have your name, address and some basic form of secure id prover.....all this will be just a key to enable data withdrawal from other databases on just about everything stored on you. Which is a lot. Soon, even your confidential medical information will be centrally stored. The amount of people CURRENTLY having authority to read that info grows all the time. Surprisingly, the police aren't one of them...however, your local council taxation department IS one of them....so is social services. Probably, your local criminal council will also be one !

Why indeed?

To go back to the original question, and a point that arose from it, my feeling is that I have no real issue with the Police using every tool at their disposal in order to (for instance) track down criminals, find witnesses etc.

Where I get uneasy is in the discovery that ANPR has apparently been routinely collecting and storing vast quantities of vehicle movement info.

It's not the Police using this data that is the problem, it is the fact that it exists at all that makes my jaw drop. It really is Orwellian.

As for the "wrong hands" thing; yes this example clearly shows a (relatively) harmless application of this data (leaving aside the potential awkwardness already demonstrated, ie of Mrs X opening Mr X's post and asking same why he "regularly" uses the M999 s'bound between J3-4 when his office is no further than J2...), but my interpretation of "the wrong hands" could range from the nuisance value of accurately targeted junk mail, through to a whole gamut of other nasties such as businesses tracking their competitors movements in order to steal their trade, car thieves wanting to track their next acquisitions, blackmailers wanting to track wealthy people, and worst of all malicious Governments wanting to tax our movements!

Look at it how you will, the potential for "data mining" here is immense, and my view is that this data shouldn't exist at all. If there is a genuine case for ANPR (and I don't actually think there is, when you look at the big picture) there is no case for retaining the data collected at all. It shouldn't go outside of the van - from what we are told it should be discarded the instant the tracked vehicle "checks out".

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Handy, the trouble is: that there are "forces" in this Country at a very high level which say to the Police: "Bugger off! ......it's NOT your concern". And they do....(bugger off, that is)....and say nowt! ever!


P.S. Paul, Please DON'T go to taking walks in the woods or driving through Paris underpasses!.........

So it doesn't matter what you say Handy, That building on the South bank still uses the data.........including every E.Mail sent! To anywhere from the UK.... in whichever way they like.


including this one.....Hi Guys!!!.....

If they can transport people across the globe for interegration (torture) through "democratic" countries like ours.......and OUR Gov. says nowt!..... the mere legal movements of the populace and their "activities" and beliefs are just a trifle!..

oooh, "they" are probably watching you right now, maybe you should hide under a desk. How exactly do you think "they" are tracking EVERY SINGLE EMAIL? What utter tosh.

[laughing out loud at you]

Back to the question that has never really been answered about what earthly use the past location of a securicor van could be to anyone (except, perhaps, the owner of the van), perhaps now would be a good time to mention that these vans are already tracked using technology far more specific than an ANPR camera every few hundred metres, even vans in the company I work for are having trackers fitted. So instead of having to hack into a non specific database that can allow you (given the time to analyse the data) where a truck was, these wrong hands could hack into the securicor database and find out EXACTLY where the truck is RIGHT NOW. Although Draco probably thinks that's already being done by MI6, because they really care about that sort of thing. Oh, and they have installed little cameras into your fridge to see what you are eating as well.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Using computer based algorithms. Don't be so naïve and do try not to be so belligerent.

Do you think that there's a copper out there with nothing better to do, and some ill intent toward you that they'd monitor your movements to identify where you are.


Unless you've done something really bad. Go on, tell us what you've done that's so bad that your being monitored in this way. It must be really juicy.

I think this is where some people are missing the point. There is no requirement for a police officer to monitor where you've gone, the power of a computerised central database obviates the requirement for any effort to be expended at all in tracking any vehicle. It is this power that allows for so many potentially sinister applications for the data, not the fact that number plates are being read.

Naïve?

You drive a flying transit van for a living, I work in IT for the country's largest ISP. Who is in a better position to know what happens to the data? Oh, wait, of course it's you, as you have an opinion on EVERY profession that is ever suggested in these forums. I wouldn't be surprised if you responded by telling the world how you invented TCP/IP, and XML was the result of a wet weekend when you couldn't do the gardening.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Belligerent!

Get back in your box old chap, noone wants to see your online willy waving.

Once you've got a grip on yourself, try Googling ECHELON.

my bold

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but....if you had a system that could track every e-mail ever sent....wouldn't you make sure it was played down?

Who? If you don't mind me asking...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

No, they don't need to. This can be got from supermarket loyalty card records.



Yes. It's easier than confronting criminals on the street.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Thought that was what PCSO's were for according to some of the *ahem* contributions on here

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Prepare to be Judged

Quite!



My bolds.

QED I think!