Safe Speed Forums

It's worse than that.

Let's take a hypothetical, but not far-off real life, situation:

A bus route into the city is ten miles long with one stop every mile.
On it's outward journey in the morning it's empty. On it's inward journey it picks up four passengers at every stop, so when it arrives back in the city it's full. That means it's averaged ten passengers over the entire 20-mile trip. Or, putting it another way, it's travelled four times the distance that the average passenger would have travelled had they taken the car.

More than that, if it's averaged 20mph over the distance, the round trip takes an hour. As the average worker starts work at 9:00, and nobody likes to arrive at work more than a half an hour before starting time, all the passengers will want to catch the bus between 8:00 and 8:30. If there's one bus every five minutes (more likely every 15-20 minutes) then six buses are required for that route. That's a total of 40 x 6 = 240 passengers travelling on that route. (as a comparison, a single lane of a single road can carry up to about 2000 cars per hour in free-flow conditions, or 2000 * 1.6 = 3200 people - so much for bus lanes)

What makes it even worse though, is that nobody uses buses on that route during the day, and they only get used again in the evening when people are going home at work - a repeat of the morning cycle in reverse.
For the rest of the day, those six buses are riding around empty, or they're parked up in the depot and the drivers are getting paid for twiddling their thumbs.

Regards
Peter

?

If there are 10 stops spaced 1 mile apart, with 4 passengers boarding the bus at each stop, and all passengers remaining on the bus to the end of the route, then the first 4 passengers each cover 10 miles, the next 4 each cover 9 miles, and so on. If each of those passengers chose to drive themselves into the city, the total mileage covered by their 40 cars would be 220 miles. Yes, compared to the average mileage covered by an individual passenger, the 20 mile round trip by that one bus looks bad, but compared to the total mileage being saved, it looks bloody good!




No, only those people getting on the bus at the first stop will need to be onboard by 8:30, those people boarding closer to the city will have a shorter journey time and thus can board the bus later.




If a route is so unlikely to attract any passengers during the daytime, then it'll be more likely that those six buses are working on different routes, or the drivers who worked the morning shifts have gone home and the evening shifts are worked by different drivers. Yes, there will always be a few buses going spare during the day, and yes, there will always be a few drivers sitting around being paid to do nothing. But this is only so that, if a bus breaks down or a driver calls in sick, there'll be a spare bus/driver to cover the shift.

Towny based relatives tell me that they wait hours for buses in the rush hour which do not turn up - driver clled in sick and no relief driver. They also say three buses for three different bus companies all turn up together and jostle for the custom. None actually go where they need to go and invariably - they have further similalry long waits for connections.

Before deregulations - they knew which bus went where, which it connected with, and they did not wait hours for one.

Hence they drive to work in their cars as it is quicker (despite the jams), wamer, more comfortable and more convenient.

I once used the train to go to conference/seminar in London. This took hours - and I did not make the conference on time - and I was the bloke giving the speech as well! The train hourney was unpleasant as well and cost more than the car would have done. In fact, the next time I did this - caught the shuttle from MIA - and including general motoring overheads, parking, air fare, tubes and taxis at the other end - cost was not really that much more. I arrived on time and less on edge than I did on the train.

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Do we need trucks?

Yes.

We also need cars, vans and busses. Oh and trains. And er planes as well.

But we also need to face a few harsh realities as well, and begin to use the things properly, as part of a holistic transport infrastructure.

However, it is highley unlikely the 1st 4 passengers will remain on the bus until the end of the route

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Steve

That's 11 times the distance.
In terms of fuel consumption, the bus might use a bit less fuel but there's probably not a lot in it. What's the fuel consumption of a bus compared to a car in urban conditions?
And when it comes to pollution the cars win hands down - a bus produces around 35 times as much NOx and around 100 times as much (carcinogenic) particulates per mile as a car does. So buses produce far moe harmful pollution than the cars they replace.
In terms of congestion, well firstly we'd need a hell of a lot more buses than we have before we start making a dent in the number of cars on the road. Secondly, a single lane of a single road can carry up to about 2000 cars per hour in free-flow conditions. But they turn it into a bus lane, which carries, perhaps, 10 buses per hour.
In terms of journey time, the cars win hands down - and this isn't down to congestion. A bus often stops at a bus stop for several minutes at a time, and is not as manoeuvreable as a car. Ever seen a bus trying to negotiate a junction in a narrow street?



If you want to get pedantic, then yes
But you do get the gist of it - it's only a hypothetical example, after all.




True.
However, if we multiply the number of buses in a vain attempt to get cars off the roads, it'll be a different story.

Regards
Peter

In the context of commuting into a city centre it is highly likely.

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Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Lots of people wishing to use the bus will need time to board the bus. Paying the driver as well - they can be stuck for about half hour. Leads to passengers waiting in the cold further along the route.

If it's too crowded - it drives past. I remembers buses doing this when I was at school myself.


But ... I seem to remember the good old days of a bus conductor - who alwys tried to charge me full fare because "I was a big tall lad - and could not possibly be 15! "

Perhaps bringing back bus conductors might solve the problem. May even help control any bad behaviour as well.

But bus companies will still only run viable services in any case - and bus travel will still not address other needs. For example - one of our youngest's prams is a folding version. When in car - we leave youngest snoozing peacefully whilst we grapple with the hellish contraption. This is the one Wildy used once on a bus. She found buses have poor storage space even for fold up prams. She found it akward to fold it whilst dealing with a wriggling baby - and equally awkward to get off the bus with the folded pram, some shopping and a vary small baby. She gave it a whirl to "tesst drive" the bus argument.

Her verdict?

"Liebchen - do not ever mention that verdammten Bus again to me!"

Apparently the bus driver was rude as he did not allow her time to get on and off the bus - and a load of prams in the space where the folding passenger seats are block the passageway for other users.

So - matter of design. I seem to recall you used to place folding prams and shopping trolleys under the steps to the upper deck when I was a lad. Still not a good deal of space for the mums - but at least it did not block the bus...

Perhaps another reason why we prefer our cars to public transport. Trains and trams are not that much better for mums with prams. We tried it out in Manchester as well - when I took us all to see a show down there over Christmas.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.