Safe Speed Forums

Warks police are running a syrvey on PCSOs.

http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/polic ... icResponse?

Interesting the first question --

" Have you noticed an increase in Police presence on the streets of your community since the introduction of Police Community Support Officers?"


MMM, i alsways thought that they were "Support Officers", not actual Police Officers, because their powers are pretty limited

http://www.warwickshire.police.uk/polic ... CSO_Powers

Looks like a biased survey, possibly for pr purposes - might be repeated in other areas??

Wonder from some of the questions if it's an attempt to say " the public want them to have those powers" since no comment box.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Let's take yesterday:
Number of (proper) policemen seen- 3 (2 in an Astra, one walking the beat)
Number of PCSOs seen: about 12 - four on mopeds dishing out parking tickets, the others strolling about in groups of 2 or 3 all looking like they're on a sponsored "walk-and-laugh-athon"

Massively improved security and safety, then....

Interesting - the "powers" section of warks police site
allows them to
"Removal of abandoned vehicles"
Carrying out road checks
Stopping vehicles for the purpose of testing.

There is another rider(* for warks,suspect the same for all the uk)

Warwickshire Police Community Support Officers are designated by the Chief Constable of Warwickshire Police and may exercise the following powers when on duty between the hours of 0800-2200:


Funny how the have now got traffic wardens powers, or do the duties vary from force to force??

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

If I remember correctly, the four I saw giving out tickets had some weird yellow-edged epaulettes, looking rather like the ones on a traffic warden's uniform. The rest of the uniform was bog-standard PCSO.

Hi

There are not many things I complain about but I HATE PCSOs...

They are quite simply a waste of money I am going to write to my MP about them, I pay taxes for them to strut about looking at themselves in uniform in shop windows. They have no real powers and the regular police officers dont like them either.

I have seen them shopping in Marks and Spencers (Often) in full dress uniform.

Walking nearly hand in hand in groups of 3-4.

Thankfully I only see them occaisionally when you will see them venture from the safety of the local police station to go to the pie shop, they usually run back to cover when they have bought a bag full of pies.

Unfortunatly they all look alike, middle aged, no sense of humour, people who would never make the REAL Police Service., and now the government have provided them with the opportunity to be big and wear a uniform ..yes a sudo Police Outfit which may fool some people into beliving these sad individuals have some kind of intelligence and fortitude.

I would stereotype these individuals as-

1) Bullied at school.
2) The type who go home and show all the family their NEW uniforms.
3) Have pictures of themselves in uniform on their mantlepiece.
4) Wearing little round spectacles and never having lived.
5) Failed Police entrance requirements/exams.

Write to your MP...about this waste of your hard earned taxes...

GET RID OF THEM !!!!! IT IS YOUR MONEY, YOUR TAXES THESE GOOD FOR NOTHINGS COLLECT EACH MONTH !!!!

COLLECT IS THE RIGHT WORD COS THEY DONT EARN THEIR MONEY !!!

WASTERS EVERY SIGNLE ONE OF THEM !!!!!

Hate is a very strong word. Why exactly do you HATE them? The reasons below? Lets see...



Oh course you can write to your MP, not that its gonna make one bit off differnce seeing as the PCSOs are around until AT LEAST 2008 (you see if you actually know anything about them you would have known that.)

I work in the middle of a busy city 5 days a week, we have many PCSOs here and i see them everyday. I have never once seen them looking at themselves in a window, as if they were they wouldnt be doing there job now would they?



There powers are suited to there role. They are not trying to be Police Officers.

And how do you know PCs dont like them? Have you asked a big enough selection? Even if you are an ex-PC your opinion on the subject doesnt count as you are not serving with them. But of course you are entitled to your opinion. Many PCSOs and PCs work along side each other, I see them out with PCSOs from time to time. I have a close friend who is a PC and he loves them, sometimes he even says he wish he were a PCSO so he could get away from half the rubbish he has to deal with.



I see PCs, Firemen and Paramedics at my local supermarket parked up and inside getting shopping. Guess what, on a shift you get breaks. They are perfectly allowed to go into a store while they are on a break. You have a problem with seeing someone in uniform in a shop? You do not know what they are doing, just jumped to a conculsion.



Have you ever thought that perhaps if you see a larger group they are perhaps off to a meeting with locals? Training a new recuit? You do not know why they are in a larger group. Its certainly not a reason to hate them. Strangely enough PCs partol in larger groups sometimes.
In my home city I only see them in twos anyway.



Actually most PCSOs will leave there station first then and not return until the end of there shift, 80% of there time is on the streets, and most will be too far from there station for it to be even worth while to go back and eat there pies.



Again you just assume they have all tried to join the police. You know this how? And them all looking the same, perhaps you are just seeing them same one each time.



Whos said PCSOs are trying to be big? Traffic Wardens wear a uniform, are they trying to be big? The uniform is very similar yes, whats the problem with that? They wear the same stab vests as PCs, and trousers. I could buy that off e-bay and look like one - would you like MORE of tax money spend to create a compeletly different uniform? Oh and it clearly states "POLICE COMMUNTIY SUPPORT OFFICER" on the back and front of there uniforms. If someone doesnt know who they are thats not the PCSOs fault. They are doing no wrong UNLESS they pretend to be a PC, which I doubt any do.



Again your opinion. You know this how though? The PCSO selection and recuitment where i'm from is practically the same as the PC recuitment.



PCSOs, like PCs pay tax. They are in effect paying there own wage. They are keeping you safe on the streets even if you notice it or not.



Until you actually present some hard facts that PCSOs are a waste then I support them fully. Your own opinions are yours but are no where near solid enough to warrent getting rid of them. Did I mention they are here until AT LEAST 2008? Looks like your gonna be hating for a few years yet!

Quite honestly i havent noticed it - but then again i havent seen one except at school out time - in the days of Community Beat Officers - we had two - one patrolled the section in the car, the other took turns to walk the beat - in this area they had an open invitation in certain houses to call in if nature called etc.Their approach was always heralded by any group misbehaving stopping their activities. On the rare occasion we have seen a PCSO - they walk past looking straight ahead.(we can almost hear the "phew,glad we're out of there" from them).

Perhaps though , PCSO are getting the backlash from the "ROAD SAFETY " campaign - at the start a lot of drivers saw this as a good idea - let the police concentrate on other things , then slowely by surely road policing became policing by the SCP lot - lower paid and not as qualified ( if at all) as Trafpol, but indiscrimately policing by numbers.
Having been conned by HMG into being highway robbed by the SCP , the British public is not slow to distrust anything else that smells as awfull as that.
Now along comes our second class PC - short on powers, lower paid with a funny name , and as far as i'm concerned, (possibly like a lot of others ) i have yet to be convinced that this is not another layer of Labour Robotisation of UK law.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Fair dos you havent seen them around so much but they are out and about dealing with a lot of small crime, something you may not notice depending what you do. But remember all criminals start at this low level, a shoplift here, a bag snatch there etc. PCSOs are doing good in my opinion.



Ok i'm not too sure exactly you mean here, PCSOs i've seen always stop and chat, its part of there role and each convo is logged at the end of the day in a general report kinda thing. However, if your meaning in a rougher area...

Remember the role of a PCSO is a non-confrontational role (if that is possible, but strickly speaking it is not - its impossible to avoid it when in a Police uniform). PCSOs have very littlie PPE (personal protection equipment) in fact all they have is a stab vest.

If you walk through an area you know is rough then you are probs glad to leave it, and you've had the option not to go there. Yet PCSOs dont are wearing a Police uniform and are asking for trouble because of that but are not equiped to deal with it, and its not in there remit to deal with it. Yet they may HAVE to until a PC arrives and even then most would be willing and want to help out there PC colleague. Dont tell me you would be happy to risk your neck like that when back-up could be a long way off, yet PCSOs willing do this every day. You have to respect them for that.



I'm just not gonna go there, I dont want to see this thread turn into another thread like the other i'm sure we've seen.
Lets leave the whole traffic and PCSOs debate along and just talk about the role in a general sense if so possible?

What PCSOs arresting criminals ????Last i heard they could just ticket dog foulers and cyclists.

But back to their presence around here -- or rather their absence, and i spend more time at home than previous.


Our last two Community Beat Officers used to patrol regularly - one would walk various parts of the area - the other used a car.

Reason - the beat area was too large to be walked ---especially if urgent presence needed at the other end.

Personally i'd rather the county recruited half the numbers, but of Police Constables, capable of any task in their job, than double the numbers of PCSO - after all we only see PCSO s in pairs ( when we do see them)

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

There powers to vary from force to force but generally they deal with low level crime that most PCs wouldnt bother with, but could be considered the basis of someone turning into a major problem for the police.



Well if its a large area and you havent got that many PCSOs in that area your not gonna seem them that often are you? You'd be more likely to see one than a PC. Even if you did see a PC no doubt they will be tied up for 4/5 hours at the station dealing with one person and not actually on the streets. A police presence is sometimes more than enough to stop would be criminals. Something a PC cant do for 80% of his/her shift whereas a PCSO is out most there time, granted they may not be able to deal with everything but they can call for a PC when needed if the situation gets out of hand. No PCSO, criminal may well get away unless Joe-Public sees and reports it. No direct link to a PC there, something a PCSO has.



Throwing more PCs at the situation wont definately fix the problem. Yes i'd like to see more PCs, everyone would. However i think you would find that those extra PCs would just end up in the station half the time anyway and not actually helping, you wont see them and just end up asking for more! PCSO is something new, it has teething problems like everything but I think its a good step and something new and fresh.

In my area (Strathclyde) they are called community wardens and if I am not mistaken they finish their 'beat' at 11PM (If anyone can be more specific on shift times then I welcome the input).

Whether they do a good job, or they are effective is not my place to say but I have noticed a convoy of CW vans bullying their way to the council depot at 40-50MPH (30 zone with Camera on opposite side) at 11PM on several occasions.

What really is their purpose? Are they there to alleviate the trivial tasks that the police hate to do and/or are they second eyes for the fuzz? If any of this is the case (which it probably is) then it seems a tad complicated, relatively speaking, because if the police (or any role for that matter) do not want, or are not expected to deal with the trivialities of their job in amongst all the other exciting and challenging things (like eating doughnuts!) then what are being paid for?

Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

Here we go again....

A plea

I've felt it necessary to suspend a thread elsewhere on this board due to tempers running high and arguments spilling over into insults to person and groups of people. Please remain civil to our fellow human beings.

I'm not suggesting the line has been crossed here, but I detect a strong undercurrent.

Many thanks to all.

This is why I didnt want to go into the whole traffic thing, i'm just wanting to express views on the role of a PCSO and see what others think in regards to my own opinions. Not looking to start a similar rather heated debate again.

Oh dear.

Look we have a situation in some forces where police are being made redundant (GMP is one well known case and there are others.) and we have "ringmarked cash for PCSOs and Specials"


Now "Specials" are different. They can ARREST and to all intents and purposes they receive a training comparable to a regular - do a very much appreciated task and are seen by our public to be a POLICEMAN WITH CLOUT AND POWER TO ARREST.

Plastics? As affectionately and collquially known and am not using to cause offence - simply using the "required slang term" (Trip - are you a PCSO? )


Well .. part of the problem.. they have no powers to arrest unless given a specific authorisation by Chief Constable to Super level

Another part of the problem? Way we deploy and utilise them. I think overall we could do a lot better by partnering more with regular or special who CAN arrest.

They can sort out the more routine fines to litter louts (but again some areas have specific wardens for this) .. and pavement cyclists

We do have a policy here in Durham. We are actively visible and seen to be visible. We will chat with our public and all involved with us are active in the COMMUNITY.

That said.. we'd prefer more regulars than PCSOs and we do encourage our PCSOs to apply to join once their contract expires.

[whistle blowing mode on]

But not really as press have already commented - especially in Manchester where my younger brother and sister serve with GMP.

But once the contract runs out .. these PCSOs end up redundant. Manchester's GMP, for example, had a high profile PCSO/regular mix presence .. nationally flagged SUCCESS Crime figures reduced to impressive levels.. but once the cash ran out.. PCSO/beat bobby presence disappeared and crime rate shot up again

[whistle blowing mode off]

They have a role ... but not one to replace Regulars and Specials. I would rather have a budget for properly recruited officers/Specials than an inflated one for PCSOs - but having said that - we will seek to deploy in way which gives them job satisfaction and our public value for money.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I am not a PCSO.

I agree that team them up with PCs is a good tactic, but I think it depends on when, where, etc. for it to be worth while.



They do have a role indeed, and they arent replacing PCs, the role IS expanding but not to the levels of a PC, at least not at this present time (who knows what will happen, two tiers maybe?).
PCSOs are properly trained for what they do, infact nationally the training has just been creased to a over double what it used to be.

Ah - but Trip unless a very very senior officer authorises .. they cannot arrest and we will only authorise for express reasons in line with their training and what we require them to do.

I think we deploy them fairly here. They seem to enjoy the work we ask and require of them anyway - and that's how it should be, They get a decent wage and job satisfaction and we get a helping hand and appease our greatest and harshest critics - the public whom we are supposed to serve and protect We strive to team them with a regualr or at least a Special of some experience. I do not think it fair on anyone to place them at the sharp edge and expect "miracles"

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I never said anything about arresting?!

If necessary PCSO's can arrest as any person can

i was under the impression that the difference in powers of arrest is identical to the difference between a police arrest and a citizens arrest, i.e. for a citizens arrest a crime must be in progress, whereas for a police arrest it is only a suspision that a crime has been commited.