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 Post subject: Green taxes imminent
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 13:46 
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Daily Telegraph

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Green taxes imminent
By Philip Aldrick, Online City Editor
Last Updated: 11:38am GMT 24/11/2006

Your view: Are green taxes the best way to protect the environment?

Airline passengers and drivers of gas-guzzling four wheel drive cars will be penalised under a raft of new "environmental" tax measures the Chancellor plans to announce in next month's pre-budget report.

Green taxes have found purchase since the Government-commissioned Stern report called for urgent action to address climate change. A rise in air passenger duty, currently at £5 for short flights and £40 for long haul, is expected.

Drivers of the most fuel consumptive vehicles, who already face a £25 daily congestion charge in London, will also be hit by proposed higher taxes.

The decisions are likely to outrage the business community, which urged the Government to resist green taxes in the wake of the report on global warming by former World Bank chief economist Nicholas Stern. Airlines argue that a blanket tax rise will penalise the more efficient carriers and not serve as an incentive for the most polluting operators to improve.

Airlines have been singled out as environmental pariahs despite causing just 2pc of the greenhouse gases, according to Stern, and a forecast of 6pc by 2020.

Farmers and those from rural communities also oppose the punitive approach taken towards owners of four wheel drive cars. They believe their interests are being overlooked because of the outcry by green lobbyists against "Chelsea tractors".

The Chancellor is also expected to use the pre-budget report to signal his support for an international market in carbon trading, according to a leak to the Financial Times.

Mr Brown has said harnessing the power of markets through a global carbon trading system was one of the best ways to curb the output of polluting gases.

At the end of last month, he proposed a new European Union target for emissions reductions of 30pc by 2020 and 60pc by 2050 and expansion of an existing carbon trading scheme to cover more than half of emissions.

He wants the EU scheme, which sets overall limits for carbon emissions but then allows businesses to trade their quotas, to be linked with Australia, California, Japan, Norway and Switzerland so as to set a global carbon price that fixes a clear cost for pollution.

However, business is concerned that if the UK pursues a green manifesto unilaterally, it will achieve little in reducing carbon emmissions but will severely damage the nation's competitiveness, putting jobs and companies at risk.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:17 
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If he wants to bring the country to it knees it is his choice.

This anti 4X4 is really winding me up.

The way I see it is a tax on cars with a large engine.

Once they have priced the Band G's off the road what then, attack the band F cars

I belive my car is a band F it is 1.6. My girlfriend was shocked that her 1.2 corsa was band C.
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vedSearch.asp

I really don't belive people will take any more increase in tax.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:20 
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How long till we have the car tax equivalent of the poll tax riots???

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:21 
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ree.t wrote:
Once they have priced the Band G's off the road what then, attack the band F cars


Yup, divide and conquer.

When all we have left are horses and bicycles they will tax those as well, then they will tax our legs.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:47 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
How long till we have the car tax equivalent of the poll tax riots???


I hope there's one for both :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 18:48 
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However, business is concerned that if the UK pursues a green manifesto unilaterally, it will achieve little in reducing carbon emmissions but will severely damage the nation's competitiveness, putting jobs and companies at risk.


I have nothing to add, other than have you seen how many commercial vehicles sit in the upper CO2 tax bands F & G? Yes, we're talking vans - the vehicles that have NO CHOICE but to drive into London. Goods can't be delivered by bus or tube, can they? Ol' Ken knows what he's doing, the greedy ****.

It is only a mater of time before the National Economy starts to take a hit from all this blind "bash anything with wheels" taxation.

If Road tax does indeed go up again by a significant proportion in the next budget, I think it may be time for a mass protest. Using something as important as the future of the planet as a cover for greed and empire-building is something that has to stop. Now.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 21:27 
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antera309 wrote:
I have nothing to add, other than have you seen how many commercial vehicles sit in the upper CO2 tax bands F & G? Yes, we're talking vans - the vehicles that have NO CHOICE but to drive into London. Goods can't be delivered by bus or tube, can they? Ol' Ken knows what he's doing, the greedy ****.

Surely Transit-type commercial vans are classed as Light Goods Vehicles TC39 or TC36 and have a flat rate of tax which isn't emissions-linked.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 23:18 
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What about older cars and classic cars? VED only seems to have cars banded after 2001. I have 2 oldies from the mid 80's. Can't seem to find any data about them.

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Andrew

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 23:43 
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This whole thing about higher taxation just being aimed at 4x4s and luxury saloons is totally false.

I am starting to get HIGHLY annoyed at the constant repetition of this spin, which was dreamed up to play on people's pet (or rather, petty) hate for such vehicles, all in a desperate attempt to find public support for an across-the-board tax rise.

I therefore devoted a few hours today to compliling a list of all cars in the highest Road Tax Band G (greater than 225g/km CO2) that are NOT 4x4s, large luxury saloons, people carriers, purpose-built sports cars or commercial vehicles.

The list is here: http://it-rox.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/cars225gkm.htm

Still quite a long list, isn't it. Most of those listed are Mondeo-class family cars. There are even Golfs, Focuses and Astras in there, for God's sake.

I hope this dispels the myth forever.

Paul, feel free to copy this list and use it elsewhere on your website.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 00:47 
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Where did you get the data from? I'd have thought some of the cars in that list would be too old to have had CO2 emissions figures quoted for them?

I'm also interested in older cars from the 1980s and early 1990s. Does anyone know how they're going to be treated?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 00:55 
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Even if you subscribe to the carbon cobblers what is missing is "transparancy"

Carbon has a value, about £19-20 per tonne. Thats how much it costs to extract it from the air. There is NO justification whatsoever for charging more in tax than that amount. And only then if the taxt was going directly to carbon offset, not to fund the crumbling health service.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 03:27 
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Homer wrote:
When all we have left are horses and bicycles they will tax those as well, then they will tax our legs.


Not at all. They don't want people to give up their cars. There's no way they will kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. As soon as they get to the point where car ownership per head of population starts to decrease, they will stop taxing cars and find another target. Their only aim here is to maximise incoming revenue. No doubt so they can go and fight some more unjust wars in the Middle East.

Mole, the data was from various sources on the Internet. As far as I can see, all were in production March 2001 and later, which is when each vehicle had to have an official CO2 figure. I too would be interested to hear how vehicles older than this are going to be dealt with.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:23 
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antera309 wrote:
I too would be interested to hear how vehicles older than this [i.e. pre-2001] are going to be dealt with.

Red Ken has said that pre-2001 vehicles with engine capacities of 3 litres and over will be hit.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:37 
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willcove wrote:
antera309 wrote:
I too would be interested to hear how vehicles older than this [i.e. pre-2001] are going to be dealt with.

Red Ken has said that pre-2001 vehicles with engine capacities of 3 litres and over will be hit.


How pre 2001? Registered December 2000 on a car that was current in January 20001 or registered in 1970?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:51 
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adam.L wrote:
How pre 2001? Registered December 2000 on a car that was current in January 20001 or registered in 1970?

Because March or April 2001 was when they introduced emissions-based tax bands. Prior to that the bands were based on engine capacity and fuel type. So (for example) a car registered in January 2001 has a different VED rate to another with exactly the same spec that was registered in May of that year.

The full hit-list is all cars in band G together with all pre-2001 3-litre or larger cars. Since band G was introduced in April this year, any cars registered prior to that date with CO2 emissions figures of over 225 g/km escape the hit because they're in band F.

You know it makes sense!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 01:06 
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My father, for most of his working life was an air conditioning engineer working on bank computer rooms. Most of his collegues had estate cars and only the guys doing the installs of heavy kit had vans. Parkin and later the congestion charge has caused all sorts of problems. Especially when these guys cannot use public transport because of tools etc.

His thought was that rather than blockades or filling the streetsm, every service company should pick the same day and 'boycot' London refuse to attend any service calls, breakdown etc, likewise couriers with a refuse to deliver to London day. Then see how London fares without cars. He felt it would have a dramatic impact.

The only flaw he could see was how to organise it to get enough people invloved so that it would have an impact (or evne the threat of it happening having an impact).

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 01:09 
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green taxes without proof?, i think thats called extortion!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 00:25 
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traitorblair wrote:
green taxes without proof?, i think thats called extortion!


The bottom line is this - even if you believe that journeys by car are the Planet's worst enemy, a tax can only have an impact if it is prohibitive. But Labour's so called "green" taxes are not prohibitive - they are carefully set to levels that they know are not high enough to force anyone out of their cars. The end result is just more money coming into the treasury. Nothing else changes.

The question is, where is all the extra money going? It certainly ain't going on funding clean energy research or planting trees. I wonder what the total daily CO2 output is for the UK forces in Iraq & Afghanistan?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 00:54 
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antera309 wrote:
I wonder what the total daily CO2 output is for the UK forces in Iraq & Afghanistan?

FoI? :)

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