Safe Speed Forums

I have been looking for a new car for my wife, she only has an automatic license. The problem is that the line between manual and automatic is blurring. The MR2 SMT for instance has no clutch pedal and you cannot use it to get a full drivers license as, according to a couple of sites including the RAC, it is considered to be an automatic. That seems quite reasonable to me however this particular car does not change gear automatically, that is still up to the driver. So can you drive it on an automatic license? It seems reasonable to do so, if it is an automatic for test purposes then it is an automatic for license purposes.

Does anyone know of any definitive information on this? If we buy the Toyota then it has to be legally accepted as an automatic by the police and insurance companies etc.

I have also sent an email to the dvla, hopefully they might send a useful reply.

The clutch pedal is definitive.

The legal definition is something like 'means whereby the driver can vary continuously the proportion of the engine power fed to the wheels'.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Excellent, thanks Paul.

It looks like the MR2 can stay on the list.

The list is still pretty short, finding a small automatic that is a good drive is not easy.

You were right Paul (of course )

Reply from the DVLA-
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I can confirm that provided your wife has a full category B licence (limited to automatics only) she will be entitled to drive the vehicle in question. A vehicle with automatic transmission mean a class of vehicle in which either

a) the driver is not provided with any means whereby she may vary the gear ratio between the engine and the road wheels independently of the accelerator and the brakes, or

b) she is provided with such means but they do not include a clutch pedal or lever which she may operate manually,

(and accordingly a vehicle with manual transmission is any other class of vehicle)
----

I wonder if the initial lessons for a new driver would be easier in something like this. They could move onto a full manual as confidence/ability grew.

If it was easier to progress from an automatic to a full license I think a few more people might take this route. At the moment you have to do an entire re-test rather than just prove you can use a clutch. My wife is a pretty good driver, imho, she is just terrified of tests (any not just driving) and gets dreadfully nervous meaning she tends to perform badly during them.

If space is not an issue there is the smart roadster.
It is ace. it has a tubro on it's little 3 pot engine , not fast, but fun. It handles like a go cart. You can even get a BRABUS tuned one

http://www.smart.com/-snm-0156420588-11 ... ale%2epage


There is always the Alfa selespeeds

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
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OT, but do you have to take the full driving test if you want to upgrade to a manual licence?

When did this definition change? I'm 100% on the definition I gave.

Is it any different?

And isn't their a) clause 100% redundant? (because there are no vehicles with a clutch and no gears)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

So from these definitions, what category do sequential manuals come into?

Paddles but no clutch pedal. Presumably manual?

DSG???

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

But do you remember those old Citroens like the Ami 8 (c1970) which had a clutch pedal, but had a centrifugal clutch? You could put the car in gear and release the clutch, and it would behave like an auto.

So did my Austin 1100 manual when the primary oil seal failed!


Back to the original post - consider a Honda Jazz auto. Very capable small car IMHO.

You are quite right. This is an absolutely fantastic small car and the CVT is very good in operation and economy. It's also like the Tardis - bigger inside than out.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Tried the smart roadster, fun car but my wife found it a bit hard to get into and out of. She really liked it otherwise so depending on what else we try she might still go for one, a re-map or the Brabus spec is supposed to perk up the gearchanges quite a bit. The coupe has more space than the MR2, and they are really economical so still on the list.

Malcom - Sequential manuals are considered to be automatics if they do not have a clutch pedal. I asked the DVLA specifically about the Toyota MR2 SMT which does not have an auto mode and they confirmed that it was OK to drive on an auto license. DSG is definitely automatic as it has a fully automatic mode, we had a look at a Seat Toledo but she found it too large.

Roger - considered the Jazz however it is expensive, tall i.e. mini-mpv style, slow and from what I read not particularly dynamic to drive.

Is it not written on the V5?

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Andrew.

There is another way to upgrade to a full UK driving licence, even if it is somewhat expensive.

Whilst holidaying in New Zealand obtain a driving licence by sitting the theory part of the test (scratch and win), a manual or auto licence from the UK means you don't have to do the practical.

Your full NZ licence means you can drive any car, manual or auto. Present this back in the UK to get a full UK licence. Job done.

I suspect exactly the same thing can be done with a US licence. My mother in law has UK auto licence but can drive a manual on her NZ version, quite frightening.

What is your price range, and how old a car do you want? Any other requirements (eg. RWD)

A Nissan 200SX is worth a look (or an import Nissan Silvia S15 which is newer and looks gorgeous) basically any Japanese car will be available as an automatic if you want it, especially if you look at imports.

The MG TF had a CVT automatic option. F1 style paddle style up and down shift on the steering wheel as well.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Won't work for a UK resident - the UK licence remains definitive[/b]

Up to about £13K but preferably closer to £8K, the car it is replacing does about 2K miles a year though it we might use it more if it was nicer to drive. Looking for a small car which can be driven on an auto license which is good to drive. It does not have to be fast 0-60 in 12 secs would do but it would have to handle and stop well. It should be reasonably cheap to insure, i.e up to group 14 but prefer 10 or less, servicing should be yearly and low road tax would help. Good fuel consumption would also be a bonus but not essential as the overall mileage would be low. It would not have to be particularly practical as I have an Impreza for carrying people and stuff.

Classical auto boxes just suck power and fuel and do not work well on small cars so I suppose we are looking for something a bit more modern, CVT, SMT, DSG etc. Unfortunately the budget will not stretch to cars like the TT V6 dsg and 3 series ssg.

P.S. I am a Yorkshireman so hate spending money

I noticed these can be picked up quite cheaply however the car we want to change is a Rover 216 with a CVT box. Given the issues we have with it the word 'bargepole' springs to mind.

The list so far is

Smart Roadster Coupe - a bit tricky to get into/out of (wife has bad back) and an interesting gearbox but otherwise pretty much the job.

Toyota MR2 SMT - looks good but rare especially with hard top so not driven yet.

Suzuki Swift - New model. Drives reasonably and quite cheap but the auto box does let it down.

Off are

Seat dsg - Altea/Toledo too big/tall, Leon too expensive at present.
Audi dsg - TT too expensive high insurance, A3 - the Leon is better.
VW dsg - if they did it in the new Polo turbo+supercharger version and we could afford it and it was nice to drive...

Anything more than about 1400mm high - no kids, not interested in mpvs, mini-mpvs, mpv a-likes, mpvettes, mpv-ish, mini-minibuses, etc.

Awkward bugger aren't I?