Safe Speed Forums

Hi Everyone,

One or two of you might be aware that I am currently in the process of setting up my new business, to fill the void left when I was unexpectedly ejected from my former employment!

Anyway, our fantastic new shop is getting dangerously close to being ready to open very soon, and one thing I need to think about pronto is a 'phone for the business.

Now for reasons I won't bore you all with, I am flatly refusing to put any further business the way of BT, which in these remote, far flung parts means not having a land-line (as far as I am aware). So my next plan was to go and buy a cheap Pay-as-you-go mobile, simply for the sake of having a number to put on our advertising so that people can 'phone or text their orders.

However, one of my longer term plans is to set up a website and use e-commerce and / or e-mail for accepting orders, so I could really do with some sort of internet connection as well.

So far I've been and looked at a couple of mobile 'phone shops but I have to admit I'm totally out of date on mobile technology, and could do with a bit of advice about what's what and how much it might cost. Thus far it looks to me like what Scott Adams once described as a "confusopoly", in that no two service providers actually provide a like-for-like service and it is therefore impossible to decide what constitutes good value!

The best deal I could see in the last store I went in seemed to be a Blackberry with a £30 per month contract for a minimum 18 month contract with some free calls and download capacity each month. Now I dare say this is probably quite a good deal, but I'm afraid that to me the basic notion of having a fixed overhead of this nature goes entirely against the grain of all the rest of my business planning! I would be much happier making a reasonable financial outlay to start with but from then on only paying for the actual service that I use, if I use it.

So, what I could do with knowing is...

1. If I buy a PDA secondhand (say) on ebay, what should I get and how much should I expect to pay?
2. What's the least "standing charge" I could then expect to pay for a suitable pay-as-you-go account?
3. What kit would I need to make use of the same connection via my laptop, should I need to?
4. How viable / costly would it be to bolt on GPS / Satnav functionality to the PDA?

All the guys I used to work with were well into this sort of gear but I have to admit it has never interested me in the slightest, and it is only now that I have an actual need for it that I'm kicking myself for not paying more attention!

Any advice greatly received (and indeed will be rewarded by way of free grub as and when we finally get the show off the ground!).

Cheers, John
(PS. FWIW there is no Vodafone reception in the premises, though my T-Mobile phone gets a great signal)

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

have a look at an SPV 3100 on 3G. We got that in preferance to a Blackberry.

Got full Microsoft Outlook access via a sync function. Also I can use it as a modem vial blue tooth or Wi Fi to a Lap Top.


p.s. I bought a 2G microSD card and I can get up to 7 full lengh feature films on it on MPEG4 format. Great when you are stuck in an airport departue lounge for hours at a time.

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills

Do you mean that the 'phone acts, in effect, like a wireless router, providing an internet gateway that one or more wi-fi equiped laptops can access? If so that sounds pretty neat.

I was looking at the T-Mobile "web'n'walk" stuff, and to my uninitiated eyes it seems to provide an unlimited broadband internet connection for £30 a month. Am I missing something? That's not much more than I'm paying for the static broadband account I've got at home, which is on top of a full rate BT landline rental!

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Sounds like a lot of trouble to go to just to avoid BT! (although I don't blame you!!!). However there are plenty other landline providers out there. I'd have thought with a shop it was preferrable to have a local number??

_________________
Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

I'm just not prepared to do business with them any more. My past experience is that trying to have any sort of dialogue with them - whether for opening an account, changing any terms or getting any sort of customer support - involves literally hours of time spent on the 'phone to them, usually to overseas call centres who have no idea what they are talking about and only speak partial English. Quite apart from my dislike of their company based on repeated bad experiences, I simply can't afford to invest that sort of time in dealing with something that is so tertiary to my core business.

I tried to find one when I moved house two years ago, and all I can say is that if they are there then they're well hidden!

Ideally yes, but that's only part of the story. The business is a sandwich bar, so I don't expect to be taking that many incoming calls, only perhaps from a few regulars who want to place an order to collect later.

But conversely, I quite fancy being able to accept orders by text, which I suspect might appeal as being quite trendy to the younger generation, and has the added advantage (to me anyway) of not being as distracting as a ringing 'phone when we're (hopefully) rushed off our feet dealing with customers.

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

3 do a laptop internet card for your laptop to connect your laptop to the internet... anyway.. lol.. £40 per month gives you the card and 1GB of download

linky

hope this helps

Edd

_________________
go for it

I'm a user of one of these on Orange network and have been for a couple of years. A nice strong 3G signal (~300kbps) is sometimes hard to come by and the devices fall back to GPRS coverage at about 50kbps.

If you're going down this route, JT, you really want to find out if any of the networks will provide a good 3G signal at your expected location(s). If they do, then go with that network.

A full month on the road running the Safe Speed campaign results in about 300 or 400MB total data transfer.

The devices also send and receive text messages and you might find it better than a phone because of the full keyboard on a laptop.

You can also get 3G wireless routers into which these cards plug making an internet enabled wireless LAN. Many new laptops don't have a PCMCIA slot, so the router might be the only reasonable way to connect. See, for example: http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/April2006/2952.htm

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Do you have a BT line to the premises?

Tiscali can route all calls AND sort out the line rental without recourse to BT as long as the line is in place.

TalkTalk Business do a similar service. Their call centre is run from somewhere in Lancashire, and you can get details via Carphone Warehouse

BOTH give you further benefits if you add mobiles to your package.

I'm not certain it is the case everywhere, but isn't BT Business Call Centre based in the UK? I have had dealings with them, and it has always been UK based - however I am with you on denying them the chance to cock up one more time - I have had no dealings with them since 2000!

Did you get your buns sorted out yet?

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Well there are two sets of incoming cables there from previous tenants, but neither is "live". Whether that precludes using a non BT supplier I know not!

That's two more lines of enquiry then (pun intended ). Problem is that I really don't have the time to spend hours and hours sorting this out, which was why I fancied getting a simple mobile based solution that I could order over the internet and have delivered in a box that will work ten minutes later.

But I suppose the bottom line is that all we actually need at this stage is a means of calling wholesalers etc, which I can happily achieve with my current P-A-Y-G mobile at a cost of < £10 / month.

So if I upgrade to (say) a £40/month package then in reality this has to generate over £100 / month of additional new business for it to be worth doing, which isn't something I'd take for granted.


Suffice it to say that your "neighbour" will be our exclusive bread supplier. Having sampled both his wares, his level of service and his positive approach to doing business that decision was an absolute "no brainer"!

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Accepting orders by text is possibly not the best of ideas

There is no grarantee of delivery time for text messages, or even of them being delivered at all. I have had texts arrive 2-4 hours late on a fairly regular basis, but that's because I drive for a lot.

If your phone remains in the same cell and with a good signal then you shouldn't get this issue too often. If you're doing deliveries too then expect lost messages.


You'd be better off doing some kind of online ordering with some software that ensures it reaches your computer (or blackberry) immediately. For gods sake do not use an email based system (such as FormMail) for this.

Can you get cable where you are? They'll do you a phone independent of BT.

If you are going to be using the phone a lot then I'd suggest using the t-mobile flext plans. They give you about £180 allowance for £35 a month and reasonable off plan rates. You can use it on any combination of calls, texts etc. The web n walk thing would be perfect with one of those 3g router thingies but you'd need a separate account for the web n walk sim if you weren't using it in your phone that was on the main plan.

As your business depends on being contactable I would recommend a back up solution if your local cell goes off.

Doing any real bandwidth intense activity eg uploading new content to your website (assuming you have one) will be slow on 3g. I wouldn't touch Three with a bargepole. Their call centre is in India and they're totally incompetant. Their coverage was also diabolical. Orange customer service has also plummeted over the last few years. They use overseas call centres now. Which leaves vodafone or t-mobile as realistic choices.

I've been using a nokia e-70 for a while which is a good combination of a phone and pda. It is phone shaped and has a fold out qwerty keyboard which is quite handy. Battery life is pretty good and it has email clients and t'internet. It also has provision for navigation as you can hook it up to a bluetooth gps unit.

Great advice from everyone, thanks!

I'm now going full circle and considering a landline based system, on condition that I can get one without using BT. I've had a look at Tiscali and their rates look great, only thing is that they seem set to fall at the first hurdle as I can't find any way of e-mailing them without first having to have an account registered, which seems a strange way to try and attract new business!

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Beware that most of these landline providers are really just BT lines but with a different company providing billing for you.

Basically you get 10% off but every time you have a problem there is an additional layer of idiocy to go through (ie. the 3rd party provider's indian call centre) before you can reach someone who is actually capable of fixing your problem. Then that person has to contact BT to actually get the problem fixed.

Tiscali are one of the worst to deal with if my experiences with them (admittely these are on the broadband side of things) are anything to go by.


Seriously, if you want a non-BT landline, get cable. Anything else is just rebadged BT.

I suspect that's the bitter truth!

Spent over an hour this morning trying to e-mail Tiscali and have now given up on them in disgust! Nor can I make any sense of the pricing policies of any of the other companies I've investigated so far, in order to determine how much the service will actually cost me in total and what I'll actually get.

To be honest I haven't any more time free to invest in this right now. I seem to have wasted about half a day so far and got little nearer other than having eliminated a few ideas as being unworkable. I think I'll just revert back to 'plan A' and buy a £20 PAYG mobile for the business from ASDA, and develop any further options if and when I can see a business benefit for doing so. Quite apart from anything else I have a sneaking suspicion that having internet access in the shop might actually be counter-productive!

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

One thing you could look into, since lots of (especially older) people are reluctant to ring a mobile number, or do business with someone who only provides a mobile number. You could get yourself an 0845 number.

All the 08 numbers are "non-geographic" numbers, or virtual numbers, they forward on to a real phone number somewhere. It may cost you money if you forward it to a mobile number, but it means you get the option of moving it to a landline in the future (without reprinting all your business stationery, your sign, and losing business from people who still have your old menu)

There's a few companies on the internet that will give you an 0845 for a one-time setup fee and no charges for receiving calls, again not sure if this applies to mobiles though!

Yeah - In a sandwich shop, what you really need is a productive counter.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Get your coat!

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

I suspect that's the bitter truth!

quote]

IT IS - why else did BT set up Openreach etc - all the other companies -Talk Talk etc , use BT lines , with a routeing number added at the BT exchange -your faults - eg Talk Talk - are sent in to TT-who call out BT - as it's BT line plant only they can work on it. Possibly the only thing you get is delays whilst TT etc contact BT.
The only way to get away from BT is to use a cable company.
Something to consider if Orange still do 0800/0808 free on contract - get a dial up ( i know slow ) monthly paid internet from someone -comes with a 0800/0808 number - connect via mobile and (in theory ,unless someone knows different) all internet time is free.Food for thought ??

This is CUMBRIA... What's CABLE?

We still cannot get channel 5 on terrestial in Windermere!

Edited to add...

I personally have had few problems with Tiscali's service calls.
When BT's equipment broke in the exchange and knocked off my broadband, it was quickly established that only a dozen customers were affected, despite about 40 being connected to the faulty equipment.

Tiscal said it would take 24 - 48 hours to fix - it was done in 12, AND they telephoned me to let me know it was back on sooner, AND gave me £5 credit for loss of service, not even asked for!!!
The people I spoke to at the Indian call centre spoke EXCELLENT English - better than I have heard in Newcastle!
JT's difficulty could be due to starting from scratch - watch out for any previous bad history at that address!!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

A non-BT non-cable phone line is provided by BT... And then you have two companies to call when you get problems and they will both blame each other.

If you can't get cable then move to Hull. BT free zone up there.

That's not to say that Kingston Communications are any good, but they're not BT.

_________________
Andrew.