Safe Speed Forums

over on pepipoo I read;



Is the information being collected and stored being misused under the data protection act?

The data in question is
A. DVLA records
b. Non criminal vehicle movements recorded by ANPR vans (or hidden cameras??)

Is it being stored for longer than necessary
Is it being used for a purpose that it was not collected for

A number plate is not personal data ... untill you link it back to a person (but thay have done this and written to him)

Is this persons movements being flagged by ANPR due to being a member of PePiPoo (worrying!)

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

This ANPR data gathering is way out of hand - and it's hardly begun.

I never gave the government permission to track my lawful movements and I object. But I can't possibly campaign against it - my hands are full.

But surely someone, somewhere must be?

I have it on good authority that ANPR cannot read an upside-down number plate. I'm seriously considering fitting mine that way...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I also heard (although I don't know if it is actually true) that ANPR has a hard time reading the square number plates, especially when they are offset (eg, Alfa style).

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

It definitely was true, and is still rumoured to be true of SPECS cameras.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The Data Protection Act 8 principles

The Act contains eight principles that must be complied with:


Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully.
Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and shall not be processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes.
Personal data shall be adequate, relevant and not excessive in relation to the purpose(s) for which they are processed.
Personal data will be accurate and where necessary kept up to date.
Personal data will not be kept for any longer than necessary for the specified purpose(s).
Personal data shall be processed in accordance with the rights of data subjects under the Act.·
Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be put in place to protect against the unauthorised or unlawful processing or disclosure of personal data, and against the accidental loss or destruction or damage to personal data.
Personal data shall not be transferred outside the European Economic Area

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I would write to the Police Force in question and the DVLA demanding answers.

I would contact the information comissioner regarding this breach of the act.

I would make a formal complaint to the IPCC.

I would also report the matter to the police - as a criminal matter (victim of an offence).

Then I would get in touch with liberty or some such body. Who i could count on to kick up a s4ite storm.

Thin end of the wedge.

I think a foi request to confirm the letter is genuine,asking what data, who autherised the data to be used this way, I would prefer to have a copy of the letter in my posseesion. (then follow the process above)

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Is a number plate considered "personal data" though? The address of the owner obviously is, and the name.

I don't know the answer to that question.

I wouldn't have an issue with a police force putting my picture captured from CCTV on "crimewatch" and saying "this man was near to the [alleged crime], he may have seen something that he didn't know at the time was material to our investigation".

Would I have an issue with my number plate being shown on Crimewatch with the same message? Probably not. Would I try to help? Yep.

Would I have the same issue if the witness to a serious crime told the police that a car with my registration may have also seen the crime (or the alleged criminal making his/her getaway), and the bobbies turned up at my door? Nope. Again, would I try to help? Yep, it's part of being a member of society.

So number plate records are ALREADY used to help solve crimes.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

I appreciate that your sentiments are good Handy, I am sure that we would all like to help in solving crimes, but the whole 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' concept has to have a limit, otherwise we will wander willingly into the Orwellian dystopia of Fabian dreams!

the point I was trying to make was that the ANPR is only the dumb witness - the police using the number plate database has gone on for a long, long time. Complaining about it using DP legislation may have unintended or unforeseen consequences.



1. I am less sure, for example I have had an exchange on this forum with one poster who would refuse to move out of the way of an ambulance with blue lights flashing in case they incurred a £60 fine for passing a red light. So to that poster, a potential life saved (never mind a potential crime solved) is worth less than a non-certain £60.

2. Being part of a society has duties as well as benefits. I didn't mention "nothing to fear" did I?

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

No, you didn't, but I sensed similar sentiments.

I don't really agree that ANPR is a 'dumb witness' in the same way as an officer writing down a licence plate. ANPR is clearly capable of writing down every number plate it sees, and then effortlessly collating the data centrally, allowing people's movements to be tracked as a matter of course without any additional overheads.

Now in the OP the assertion put forward by the police wasn't that the vehicle had been seen on a certain road at the time of the accident, such info could have come from reviewing video footage at, or around, the site of said accident. Instead the letter stated that they were aware that the recipient regularly used the road in question, which I hope you can see is altogether more sinister.

except that the dumb witness is recording EVERYONE that drives past and storing that information indefinitely. Are you 100% certain that that information will never be misused in the future?

So, do we understand that ANPR records are retained (indefintely?) and can be searched by date/time window to produce a list of regular users of a particular road? This is movement tracking then and not just law enforcement by looking up DVLA databases for VED and insurance.

Is this what the inventors of this system intended when they introduced it?

PS. Does the law say that your numberplate must be the correct way up or just something like "legible".

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Anpr is a dumb list of reg plates and locations and times.
When it is linked to a name and address of a car owner it becomes personal data

The personal data (name and address of owner of vehicle ) was not given so that it could be mathed with ANPR to provide potental witnesses

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

The police have, for many years, staged "reconstructions", to great effect (a murder in Billinge was solved following information received during a reconstruction, for example).

These reconstructions are usually timed to occur at the same time of day (and sometimes even day of week) so that people who passed by at the time of the incident may also be passing by again (probably less likely these days in the light of things like flexitime and shift patterns).

Is this also sinister? Or police using all available methods? Based on your posts it seems you would be unhappy if the police reviewed video of cars seen at the same time as the incident on different days, but how would a reconstruction be different?

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

There are thousands of people out there who work on sensitive stuff, securicor vans. nuclear research , animal research, police informants or even police officers.

They do not want to be tracked by ANPR and data stored, as that data , in the wrong hands can be dangerous to them.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

1. the OP referred to the Hampshire Constabulary. If the OP had referred to a letter from someone else, I would share the concern. I don't really agree that the police can be seen as the "wrong hands".

2. ANPR tracks where a vehicle has been. Not where it is going. It's probably easier to track vehicles of all of those types by following them, than trying to hack into a database.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

The government aren't the only group who can misue your VRM details. Cloned plates are proving to be a bit of a problem too..........

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

2 ANPRs can show that a vehicle has travelled between 2 points. 3 ANPRs between 3 points etc, etc. Expand that nationally and you can tell where anyone vehicle was at any particular time.

what could the "wrong hands" do with that infomation, precisely?

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.