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Now they're tracking us through our phones

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Graeme

Post subject: Now they're tracking us through our phones

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:31

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http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/liv ... rtComments

Quote:

Big Brother Britain: Government and councils to spy on ALL our phones
By JASON LEWIS - More by this author »

Last updated at 17:50pm on 30th September 2007

Officials from the top of Government to lowly council officers will be given unprecedented powers to access details of every phone call in Britain under laws coming into force tomorrow.

The new rules compel phone companies to retain information, however private, about all landline and mobile calls, and make them available to some 795 public bodies and quangos.

The move, enacted by the personal decree of Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, will give police and security services a right they have long demanded: to delve at will into the phone records of British citizens and businesses.

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Gizmo

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 20:20

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Go pre-pay...no identity

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Graeme

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 22:20

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Gizmo wrote:

Go pre-pay...no identity

Unless you buy credit with a card :roll:

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Steve

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 22:46

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Another useless law that will accomplish bugger all, as you say Gizmo, it is easy to bypass the ears of the law enforcement agencies. You can also buy pre-pay via ebay, cash on collection! Real criminals don't bother with legitimate personal details anyway - at least not their own!!!

The part that really bothers me is why the data needs to be shared among the like of: the Food Standards Agency, the Department of Health, the Immigration Service, the Gaming Board, the Charity Commission, Royal Navy Regulating Branch, the Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary, the Department of Trade and Industry, NHS Trusts, ambulance and fire services, the Department of Transport and the Department for the Environment.

Why?

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Yokel

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 23:08

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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 00:54
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Location: Rural Somerset

And since when have such measures been

Quote:

enacted by the personal decree of [the] Home Secretary (my emphasis)

(and particularly by such a useless jobsworth as Jacqui Smith)?

Is it just me, or is all this rather sinister?

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patdavies

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:37

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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 16:37
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This story is the Mail for God's sake.

The headline (and some of the posts) imply that the content of calls will be kept - which it won't - I don't think that there is enough storage space in existence for that.

Also, they talk about the ability to track a handset to within a few feet - somebody's been watching too much television. The system can only identify which mast the phone has locked to - not how far away from the mast it is and some masts (once you realise that there is life outside Central London) are miles apart.

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Steve

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:57

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patdavies wrote:

The headline (and some of the posts) imply that the content of calls will be kept

The headline is certainly over-dramatic.

patdavies wrote:

Also, they talk about the ability to track a handset to within a few feet - somebody's been watching too much television. The system can only identify which mast the phone has locked to - not how far away from the mast it is ...

You don't need to know how far a phone is from a mast to know where it is, as you rightly say that's quite difficult to do. You only need to measure the time difference between signal reception at 3 (or more) masts to get a relative triangulation - much like GPS in reverse. From there distances can be calculated.
I won’t believe no-one thought of incorporating something like that when designing the mobile phone systems.

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SafeSpeed

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 13:11

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smeggy wrote:

You only need to measure the time difference between signal reception at 3 (or more) masts to get a relative triangulation - much like GPS in reverse. From there distances can be calculated.
I won’t believe no-one thought of incorporating something like that when designing the mobile phone systems.

Flight-time triangulation exists and is in daily use.

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Twister

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 15:34

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Location: Hillingdon

SafeSpeed wrote:

Flight-time triangulation exists and is in daily use.

Indeed, when I was still with Orange (going back nearly 2 years now) they had something on their mobile web portal that could give you location-specific information (nearest bank, station etc.) using triangulation.

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jomukuk

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 19:24

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Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 04:10
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My orange mobile has a "where are you" function.
Just did a query and it has me about 150 metres from my true location. I'm in the country about 5 miles out of town.

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botach

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 20:24

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jomukuk wrote:

My orange mobile has a "where are you" function.
Just did a query and it has me about 150 metres from my true location. I'm in the country about 5 miles out of town.

Likewise - try 1200 or 9-1200 on O2 - not so accurate , but too close for comfort.

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Julesm

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 17:15

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Location: Thetford, Norfolk

Not sure it matters thats it might only be accurate to 150metres or so. If it reveals to your employer that you are infact not at home sick in bed, or to your wife that you are not at work, could be a problem

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Ziltro

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 19:18

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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 02:50
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Location: Dorset

Does triangulation assume an omnidirectional antenna? If you fitted a yagi instead would that mess it up?

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SafeSpeed

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 19:51

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Ziltro wrote:

Does triangulation assume an omnidirectional antenna? If you fitted a yagi instead would that mess it up?

A yagi (=multi-element directional antenna like typical TV aerials) would hardly ever be pointed at the cell mast you were trying to use - unless you had a fixed installation or a complex system of automatic aiming.

But you might scupper the signal from reaching other cell masts.

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jomukuk

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 19:52

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I don't think a beam antenna would help much. For a start, you'd need to point it at a specific tower...and the sidelobes would still be strong enough for other cells to receive a signal. The other problem is that getting a yagi for 900/1800/2100 etc is not easy....and there is no facility on a mobile to "plug one in".
Just turn it off, and take the battery out.

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Steve

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 20:14

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jomukuk wrote:

..... and take the battery out.

You've been watching too much 24 :lol:

although I can't discount the possibility that there could well be at least some truth in it.

I recently read that mobiles could be remotely turned on to transmit whatever the mouthpiece picks up while keeping the display deactivated - so turning it into a neat bugging device!

edit: just found it in Wiki.

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Twister

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 23:30

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Location: Hillingdon

jomukuk wrote:

and there is no facility on a mobile to "plug one in".

Depends on the mobile...

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Ziltro

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 01:30

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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 02:50
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Location: Dorset

Well a lot of mobile phones have an external aerial connection, but it might not be a very good one.

I was thinking that if triangulation was done by measuring the signal strength received from your phone's transmissions then beaming the signal would skew the results, even if the beam is fairly wide. Of course if it measures the time taken for the signal to get to the cell sites then that wouldn't affect it much.

I should think paper clips would make a good yagi at those frequencies.

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Draco

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 00:04

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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 01:16
Posts: 917
Location: Northern England

Tip:........

If you're being "naughty" and going somewhere you shouldn't, put the phone in a tin......

DON'T turn it off!......'cos it'll say it's OFF if someone rings it......

If it's in a tin it will say something to the effect that it's "unavailable".

Re-open tin and remove phone at the desired, "safe location".

(P.S. Your lunchbox aluminium foil is also useful).

Those poor reception areas can be a real pain! can,t they folks? :roll:

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Steve

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 01:29

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Draco wrote:

DON'T turn it off!......'cos it'll say it's OFF if someone rings it......

If it's in a tin it will say something to the effect that it's "unavailable".

In both cases I get:
"It has not been possible to connect your call. Please try again later".

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