Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Thu Nov 12, 2026 21:29

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:35 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
Quote:
A two-year-old girl was critically ill today after she became trapped underneath a car which rolled on top of her near to a children’s centre.

Paramedics said that the injured child stopped breathing at one point.

But they resuscitated her on the way to hospital. Firefighters freed the girl from underneath a Fiat Punto which had been in a car park near the SureStart centre in Crescent Road, Darlaston. It is thought she had been to the centre with her mother as part of Family Learning Week events for Halloween.

It is unclear how the car rolled back on to her.

The girl suffered serious head, face and bodily injuries and was taken to Walsall Manor Hospital. She was transferred to Birmingham’s Children’s Hospital where her condition was described as “critical” today.

Both ends of Crescent Road were blocked off by police following the incident at 2.30pm yesterday, and it remained closed until the early evening as investigations took place.

A man who saw firefighters free the child said: “They were using an airbag to get the car off the little girl.”

West Midlands Ambulance Service spokeswoman Claudine Weeks said that the girl had stopped breathing at one point but she had been revived by paramedics.

She said: “An ambulance was sent to the scene, and the crew found the child underneath a car.

“The fire service freed her, and she was rushed to Walsall Manor Hospital,” she added.

“Paramedics worked desperately to resuscitate her as they conveyed her to hospital, and the hospital was put on standby.

“A full team of six doctors and four nurses were on hand to receive her at accident and emergency at Walsall Manor, as the ambulance arrived.”

West Midlands Fire Service spokesman Mike Fox said that crews from Bilston and Wednesbury had been called to help free the girl and offer first aid.

He said: “When crews got there, they found a two-year-old girl trapped beneath a car, which is believed to have rolled back.

“An airbag was used to raise the car so crews could get to her.” Officers from Bloxwich Road Policing Unit are investigating and said today that “a number of lines of inquiry” were being followed up


(rant) Ok I wasnt there and there may be more to this. but it was a fiat punto

I could lift the rear of this car on my own. if the girl wasnt breathing she needed rescuing ASAP not waiting for the fire brigade. couldnt they have lifted the car by the wheel arches and shoved some spare wheels or a push chair under the car to relieve the weight?

have we all got this plastic policemans syndrome where we watch someone dying and wait for "the professionals"
(/rant)

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:43 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
Hmmm. What about using the car jack? All cars must have them. I guess there must have been plenty cars (with their own jacks) nearby.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:45 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 01:48
Posts: 526
Location: Netherlands
My thoughts too, anton, I mean get six or seven people together and I reckon the rear of the car could be completely lifted and the whole car maneuvered away. Others in the car park, heck, stop a few cars even, just get the people there quick and help get the car off the child ASAP.

Or are we oversimplifying things?

_________________
p.s. I am still absolutely floored by Paul's death. May 2008 be the greatest ever for SafeSpeed. His spirit lives on.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 13:18 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
In 1986, my motorcycle was run down by a builders transit van which mounted the pavement in snow, and it was trapped underneath.

5 people managed to tip the van and it's contents up while I dragged the bike out from underneath.
A Punto would be no trouble - three people could manage that!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 13:32 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 16:04
Posts: 816
I think that the compensation culture is having an effect in this case. If anyone were to move the car causing the girl more severe injuries you can bet that the parents would not thank you for (potentially) saving her life.

_________________
Prepare to be Judged


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 13:37 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 18:42
Posts: 1283
Location: Essex
Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see anything to indicate lots of people standing around.

In some crush injuries it can be better to leave a person in place until the 'professionals' get there.

With working at height there have been fatalities due to suspension trauma (similar effects on the body to crushing) wher the the rescuers are unaware of the right protocols.

I'm in two minds, IMO there isn't enough here to decide properly there are just two many facts missing for me and I rather suspect that this is only newsworthy because of the uproar regarding the PCSO's who didn't save a boy from drowning, at the risk of changing topic I think they were right having read some of the reports rather than the 'news' articles.

Have recovered to many would be rescuers who ended up dead or injured 'having a go'.

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 13:52 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
if the car just "rolled back" I would not expect that many severe injuries.
If some one is not breathing that is your first priority, before spinal damage, blood poisioning (that only happens after 5 min of no blood flow)
etc. I agree that people crushed under busses and trains are better left there as severe injuries often worsen when the bus is removed.
But it was a fiat punto and a 2 year old, at low speed.

but as you say it is patchey info.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 14:10 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 19:58
Posts: 730
Let's just picture the scene. Someone gets their jack, lifts the car up, fumbles, and the car falls again crushing the child's head.

Sometimes it is best to wait for the professionals.

_________________
www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 15:17 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
Thatsnews wrote:
Let's just picture the scene. Someone gets their jack, lifts the car up, fumbles, and the car falls again crushing the child's head.

Sometimes it is best to wait for the professionals.

That's true. I don't disagree that someone could get it wrong in the heat of the moment. I've tinkered with my car a bit so I'm confident with using mine.
I also agree that moving a physical trauma victim is generally not a good idea, but if the child had stopped breathing while underneath the car (a big if I know) then that and the jack might be worth the risk.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 15:26 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
I guess we have moved into an age where75% of the population may never have chaned a light bulb, never mind a tyre!

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 16:38 
Offline
Magistrate
Magistrate

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 13:58
Posts: 1155
The problem is that once you have lifted the car the person trapped under it, if conscious, tends to panic and try to crawl out, all too often tripping the people carrying the car.

I hear about this sort of thing from colleagues in A&E and they are convinced that people don't help because they are too busy getting it all on camera.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 19:47 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 21:10
Posts: 1693
fisherman wrote:
The problem is that once you have lifted the car the person trapped under it, if conscious, tends to panic and try to crawl out, all too often tripping the people carrying the car.

I hear about this sort of thing from colleagues in A&E and they are convinced that people don't help because they are too busy getting it all on camera.


In the past, my inclination would have been to chock the wheels and use the jack to CAREFULLY relieve pressure if the casualty was having dificulty breathing. (But keeping a close eye on any bleeding) I would only attempt to remove the casualty if the casualty was clearly only trapped as distinct from signiicantly injured. (or if there was some other factor such as the car being on fire or whatever)

Nowadays, I am just too concerned about getting sued to bankruptsy by some ambulance chaser should things go wrong (or aledgedly go wrong. Most "Injury claims" against private individuals never go to court since the defendents cant afford to take the risk of losing, so they just pay out! :( Its basically blackmail !!)

_________________
"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 21:28 
Offline
Magistrate
Magistrate

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 13:58
Posts: 1155
The UK has no compulsion in law to give first aid so legally its OK to stand by and watch someone die. If you don't have a conscience that is.

We don't have a Good Samaritan Act either. Most of the states of the USA do have such an act, which protects first aiders from prosecution if things go wrong. In each case the persons background is reviewed and they are expected to give such as could be expected from a person with their specific background. So a doctor would be expected to provide a higher standard of care than a first aider from a local shop or factory.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 23:20 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 18:54
Posts: 4036
Location: Cumbria
That sounds like a really good idea! It's not often I hear of something from the US of A that I would prefer to have over here but that seems, at first glance like a really fair and sensible thing to have!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 00:04 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
fisherman wrote:
We don't have a Good Samaritan Act either. Most of the states of the USA do have such an act...


Mole wrote:
That sounds like a really good idea! It's not often I hear of something from the US of A that I would prefer to have over here but that seems, at first glance like a really fair and sensible thing to have!


And when a clumsy, inept or stupid person attempts to perform his duty under such an act?

It sounds like: We expect you to act, irrespective of whether or not you know what you are doing. Now I quite undertand that it would never say any such thing, but does the guy on the spot?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 07:12 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
I was under the impression that, apart from the obvious desire to escape that fisherman mentions, removing the crushing force is likely to result in extreme shock and potential renal failure, known as crush syndrome, that would certainly be fatal for a two year-old in the absence of professional medical care.

What I do wonder is how the child came to be there; a two year-old is tiny, certainly impossible for reversing drivers to see, and should not be allowed to roam free in a car park.

As for the Good Samaritan legislation, there clearly has to be a balance. Some relevant, current training must be a prerequisite to be entitled to it's protection. I would be surprised if even the Septics hadn't built something like this into their act.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 08:50 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
anton wrote:
I guess we have moved into an age where75% of the population may never have chaned a light bulb, never mind a tyre!


You'd think so judging by the number of cars driving around with only one headlight! :x

France has a rule/law where you must stop and give aid to other motorists in trouble, but I believe it does not extend to breakdowns.
Fire extinguishers are compulsory in all cars, and you are expected to deploy yours to aid another motorist. :shock:

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 08:55 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
Thanks Robin. That looked interesting enough to look up.

Do I extrapolate correctly: if a person was to suffer a crushing trauma, you can remove the pressure straight away (if you have cause to) without significant risk of “crush syndrome”, but after an amount of time (a couple of minutes I guess) the victim will be better off waiting for the professionals?


anton wrote:
I guess we have moved into an age where75% of the population may never have chaned a light bulb, never mind a tyre!

:!: Add a tyre change to the driving test?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 09:13 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
smeggy wrote:
Add a tyre change to the driving test?

A bit hard if you're driving a BMW or MINI with runflats and no spare :roll:

Will that become standard on all cars in ten years' time?

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 00:37 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 18:54
Posts: 4036
Location: Cumbria
SafeSpeed wrote:
fisherman wrote:
We don't have a Good Samaritan Act either. Most of the states of the USA do have such an act...


Mole wrote:
That sounds like a really good idea! It's not often I hear of something from the US of A that I would prefer to have over here but that seems, at first glance like a really fair and sensible thing to have!


And when a clumsy, inept or stupid person attempts to perform his duty under such an act?

It sounds like: We expect you to act, irrespective of whether or not you know what you are doing. Now I quite undertand that it would never say any such thing, but does the guy on the spot?


All one would expect of a clumsy, inept or stupid person is to know their own limitations and not try anything that they didn't feel competent to do. Surely that's not too much to ask? I know there will also be people who try to tackle things and make a complete dog's breakfast of it but it's not like the "Good Samaritan" law COMPELS people to help - it just gives them a bit of protection if they try. (at least as I understood it)! I'm sure most people still wouldn't help anyway!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.029s | 12 Queries | GZIP : Off ]