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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 09:33 
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In the news again, the man himself speaking on Radio 4 yesterday?
claiming that ecstasy is less harmfull than aspirin. :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:48 
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Ecstasy is less harmful than aspirin if you happen to be haemophilliac :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:49 
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No one voted for him, he is not paid to be a politician!

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:39 
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It's not impossible that it is safer, but it's almost impossible to find out in any scientific way... One of the major problems involved in studying "illegal" drugs is posed by their very illegality. Finding control and study groups is damned-near impossible - without the researchers risking being banged-up for conspiracy or similar!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 13:08 
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WATER is incredibly dangerous - plunged head first into a bucket of it, you could die after prolonged exposure - and if you get electrics and water mixed up you could die of shock - yet it's available on tap in our homes, AND we are supposed to drink 3 litres of it a day.

I wonder when we will hear Brundstrom seek to have WATER tightly controlled!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 19:03 
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I believe that Brunstrom is correct, scientifically, about ecstasy. I'm not sure if I agree with him about drugs in general: I can see the arguments on both sides. However as usual he has approached the issue like a prat. It also pisses me off when ayone claims whatever idea they're proposing is 'inevitable': it's just a plot to stifle proper debate.

But also the way he was reported was misleading: for example, Radio 5 said somnethig like: "Richard Brunstrom believes drugs should be legalised, even Ecstasy" which was very misleading, as they were implying Ecstasy is particularly harmful which is far from the case.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 19:15 
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He is deliberately confusing the anti-drugs message by including safety issues with the moral ones.

In fact, Ecstacy is pretty safe in medical terms and could probably be legalised on these grounds if it weren't for the moral and social objections to taking mood altering drugs. Now, I know about legal alcohol and tobacco and all the problems these cause but do we really want another legal drug causing further social decay?

The Government is schizophrenic on this issue. First cannabis is OK and then not. They are trying to ban smoking a bit at a time. Big health campaigns (based on flawed science) are being run against the evils of the demon drink. Good, let's legalise some other drugs.

As we actually all know, most things - drugs included - are OK in moderation.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 00:01 
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Ecstasy safer than aspirin eh Dicky? Gosh, next time I have a problem with blood clots, or a banging headache, I'll just pop a couple of doves and be right as rain then eh? What's that you say? Its safer but has no medicinal benefits? Gosh, isn't that awkward.

Living in bubbles, breathing filtered air, drinking sterilised water and being fed pasteurised food through a feeding tube (to avoid the risk of choking before you ask :P) is a lot safer than life as we know it, but what benefit is there to living 120 years of boredom?

Everything we do is a risk/benefit compromise, Blunderstorm in particular, and the government in general, need to realise this! If they don't see the light soon, start buying shares in cotton-wool manufacturers!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 00:04 
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Cue Daily Mail report featuring reports of teenagers who died after a single tablet.
One example even confirmed that it was a contaminated tablet!

50 deaths were reported due to ecstasy - well you could cross off the contaminated one!
However a quick search revealed this from a BBC article discussing the reduction in pack sizes of aspirin and paracetamol:
Quote:
The researchers, writing in the British Medical Journal, suggest that even more deaths may be avoided if the maximum pack size was decreased still further - possibly to 24 tablets.

"Since the new legislation, pharmacies and other retail outlets have usually allowed only one pack to be bought per transaction," they say.

"Although this does not prevent a customer visiting several outlets to amass a large supply of the drugs, the general effect of the legislation is to reduce the maximum number of analgesic tablets available for impulsive self poisoning.

"An even smaller maximum pack size for pharmacy sales might have had a greater impact still."

Paracetamol is the most common way of self-poisoning in the UK.

Dr Geoffrey Brandon, director of the Paracetamol Information Centre, said: "Paracetamol is used safely and effectively by most people including pregnant women and children, so a reduction in its misuse is particularly welcome.

"Current pack sizes now strike a realistic balance between availability for the millions of people who need a safe and effective pain reliever, and the tiny minority who misuse medicines for purposes of self-harm."

Overdoses of drug are also responsible for half of all cases of liver failure in this country.

Before the new laws, overdoses of paracetamol accounted for 40,000 hospital referrals a year and between 100 and 150 deaths.

Aspirin overdoses accounted for about 5,000 hospital admissions annually and about 60 deaths.

Now I'm not sure about the Daily Mail's arithematic, but when I was at school, 60 and 100 were BOTH more than 50!

The real danger comes because you take them with WATER! :o

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 01:08 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Cue Daily Mail report featuring reports of teenagers who died after a single tablet.
One example even confirmed that it was a contaminated tablet!

50 deaths were reported due to ecstasy - well you could cross off the contaminated one!
However a quick search revealed this from a BBC article discussing the reduction in pack sizes of aspirin and paracetamol:
Quote:
The researchers, writing in the British Medical Journal, suggest that even more deaths may be avoided if the maximum pack size was decreased still further - possibly to 24 tablets.

"Since the new legislation, pharmacies and other retail outlets have usually allowed only one pack to be bought per transaction," they say.

"Although this does not prevent a customer visiting several outlets to amass a large supply of the drugs, the general effect of the legislation is to reduce the maximum number of analgesic tablets available for impulsive self poisoning.

"An even smaller maximum pack size for pharmacy sales might have had a greater impact still."

Paracetamol is the most common way of self-poisoning in the UK.

Dr Geoffrey Brandon, director of the Paracetamol Information Centre, said: "Paracetamol is used safely and effectively by most people including pregnant women and children, so a reduction in its misuse is particularly welcome.

"Current pack sizes now strike a realistic balance between availability for the millions of people who need a safe and effective pain reliever, and the tiny minority who misuse medicines for purposes of self-harm."

Overdoses of drug are also responsible for half of all cases of liver failure in this country.

Before the new laws, overdoses of paracetamol accounted for 40,000 hospital referrals a year and between 100 and 150 deaths.

Aspirin overdoses accounted for about 5,000 hospital admissions annually and about 60 deaths.

Now I'm not sure about the Daily Mail's arithematic, but when I was at school, 60 and 100 were BOTH more than 50!

The real danger comes because you take them with WATER! :o


Yes, that's what I thought. Until I realised that, in all probability, much more people take aspirin and paracetamol than take Ecstasy, so the percentage of users dying might be higher re Ecstasy. I could be wrong, however.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 01:12 
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RobinXe wrote:
Ecstasy safer than aspirin eh Dicky? Gosh, next time I have a problem with blood clots, or a banging headache, I'll just pop a couple of doves and be right as rain then eh? What's that you say? Its safer but has no medicinal benefits? Gosh, isn't that awkward.

Living in bubbles, breathing filtered air, drinking sterilised water and being fed pasteurised food through a feeding tube (to avoid the risk of choking before you ask :P) is a lot safer than life as we know it, but what benefit is there to living 120 years of boredom?

Everything we do is a risk/benefit compromise, Blunderstorm in particular, and the government in general, need to realise this! If they don't see the light soon, start buying shares in cotton-wool manufacturers!!!


The really dangerous clot seems to be Blunderstorm!

I mean, how the Hell can his officers police drug laws effectively if their own boss is sending out to the public the message that illegal drugs are safe and that it is really OK to consume them?

If he wants to peddle this message let him take the honourable step and resign from his law enforcement role and take up a job as a campaigner for legalising all drugs.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 01:48 
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If he wants to peddle this message let him take the honourable step and resign from his law enforcement role and take up a job as a campaigner for legalising all drugs.

Dont be daft - he'd get as much exposure as David Icke! Hang on a moe - Druids costume needs dyeing purple and he's there!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 01:58 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Quote:
If he wants to peddle this message let him take the honourable step and resign from his law enforcement role and take up a job as a campaigner for legalising all drugs.

Dont be daft - he'd get as much exposure as David Icke! Hang on a moe - Druids costume needs dyeing purple and he's there!


Blunders is so PR savvy he'd get as much PR as he wanted. :x

David Icke was/is a bit touched. Blunders is sly. I think.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 03:00 
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Thatsnews wrote:
Blunders is so PR savvy he'd get as much PR as he wanted. :x

David Icke was/is a bit touched. Blunders is sly. I think.


I dunno, the more I see of him the more I see the resemblance to Alan Partridge, and not solely in looks and mannerisms. He is shamelessly self-promoting, no doubt, but some of the things he does are so incredibly Partridge-esque that it is hard to believe he has any deeper thought.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 04:19 
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Beware all, This man is dangerous and he is NO idiot..............

He knows that his Force and All others have Failed to control the drugs issue and the ensueing crime wave. He KNOWS that the General Public thinks that he has prostituted his force to become mere "tax collectors" for the Government by the use of speed Scam cameras. He Knows that no-one in their right mind would drive into his North Wales patch to spend money anymore. It's simply NOT worth your Job, Home, or Licence to visit North Wales!....

This man is like the Rugby forward, who, with the ball, is faced with 3 opposing forwards bearing down upon him. He quickly passes the ball to his mate on the right...

He doesn't want the "Police" to be blamed for the failure to control drugs. So.......He asks us to "Legalise them".

This would END his responsibilty and his problem! Or so he thinks.............


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 09:26 
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Draco wrote:
He knows that his Force and All others have Failed to control the drugs issue and the ensueing crime wave.


Is it possible to control the drugs issue?

People will always find a way, prohibition always seems to cause more problems than the thing that is prohibited as the industry moves underground and ends up being run by violence.

A pertinant argument for this site as many believe that the "drive at what speed you feel safe at" prohibition is actually causing more harm than good (I dont' agree, but there is a parallel there).

Remove dugs prohibition and there will still be problems, but different problems, and possibly less destructive problems.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 09:37 
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weepej wrote:
prohibition always seems to cause more problems than the thing that is prohibited as the industry moves underground and ends up being run by violence.

Thats pretty much what I said to you on another thread about firearms, although you seemed to think differently then.

weepej wrote:
A pertinant argument for this site as many believe that the "drive at what speed you feel safe at" prohibition is actually causing more harm than good (I dont' agree, but there is a parallel there).

Many of us here don't believe in "driving at a speed we feel safe at" at all, we believe in driving at a speed that suits the prevailing conditions.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 09:50 
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Gixxer wrote:
Thats pretty much what I said to you on another thread about firearms, although you seemed to think differently then.


Got me there, I strongly believe in firearms prohibition, but possibly only because they are used in the execution of other prohitbited trades.

But I still think if everybody carried a firearm on them we'd have some serious problems.

Only a physco could use a firearm on somebody else, but we're all capable of becoming physcos for brief periods of time.

Like I say, I've seen people having full on arguments about who got the car parking space first, pretty sure that some of these would result in gun use if we all packed heat.

Pretty much the end of every night down the pub would end up in a gun fight I imagine as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:42 
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One example even confirmed that it was a contaminated tablet!


The single biggest difference I know of between legal and illegal drugs is the standards used in their manufacture. You would be amazed at the hoops you have to jump through to get the machinery and processes validated, none of which applies to illegal manufacture.

The active ingredients in any drug might be relatively safe but any contaminents could be lethal.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:06 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Now I'm not sure about the Daily Mail's arithematic, but when I was at school, 60 and 100 were BOTH more than 50!


I think you need to adjust your statistics by the number of tablets consumed. I bet there were a lot more asprin or paracetamol tablets consumed than ecstasy tablets.

That said, I really hate the restriction on packet sizes. Getting to a pharmacy is a pain in the arse where I live so I'm reluctant to do it regularly, so instead I tend to hit 3 pharmacies in a single trip and buy a months supply. It's a waste of petrol, but less so than going to the pharmacy every week.


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