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linkM4 relief road ’could become a white elephant’
Aug 5 2008 by Rhodri Clark, South Wales Echo

THE planned M4 relief road in South Wales risks becoming an expensive “white elephant” because potential users would be put off by the cost.

That was the fear expressed today after figures showed a similar road in the Midlands is now used by barely half the number of drivers expected when it opened five years ago.

The M4 relief road is designed to speed up journey times around Newport. The road would be in addition to the existing route of the M4.

No decision has yet been made about how it would be paid for, but last year Transport Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones said he hoped it would be open by 2013.

But figures released by the Highways Agency reveal that the M6 relief road – designed to reduce congestion around Birmingham – reduced the amount of traffic on the area’s main stretch of the northbound M6 by just 0.4% last year, compared to 2003.

When the six-lane M6 Toll was being planned, experts forecast it would handle 80,000 vehicles per day on average from its third year. But the latest figures reveal that, nearly five years on, the road is now being used by 42,000 vehicles per day on average.

There were hopes the new motorway in South Wales would be paid for by private firms, who would claim the money back through a pay-as-you-drive toll.

But the number of cars using the equivalent section of the M6 may put an end to that idea.

Tim Shallcross, Welsh policy officer of the IAM Motoring Trust, said: “It’s no good building new roads to ease congestion which simply price motorists off them,” he said. “The wealthy people who carry on driving the gas-guzzling cars will use it. The rest of us will simply sit in a traffic jam, watching them go by.”

Gordon James, director of Friends of the Earth Cymru, said: “Are people going to pay the extra to go onto this M4 relief road when they can stay on the existing road?

“We should learn from the lesson of the M6, which should warn us against making the same mistake.

“That [the M6 Toll] is a white elephant.”

Geoff Dossetter, of the Freight Transport Association, said lorries on the M6 Toll were “very rare” because of the £9 one-way toll.

A spokesman for the Assembly Government said: “The business case for this scheme is currently being prepared. The project planning also includes a series of environmental impact surveys.

“If the business case is approved by the minister, it is expected that a public local inquiry will be held, which will provide an opportunity for an independent review.

The recommendations from this inquiry will enable the minister to make an informed decision.”

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I think that the M6 Toll cost less than one billion pounds to build (from scratch, including land purchase, lots of bridges, junctions, infrastructure etc. etc.). Thus, from the motoring taxes collected by the government in one year alone, we could afford to build around fifty "M6 Tolls" - except that they would be publicly owned and thus would be completely free and not require any tolls!

Think how much congestion would be reduced if FIFTY thirty-mile bypasses/relief-roads were built every year???

Sure, the tree-huggers might get upset, but the motorist would be in heaven

mb

Wonderful. No lorries and far fewer than expected cars. Both motorists and the environmentalists win.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Have Birmingham and Wolverhampton won?
Have the locals got as much clean air as they could have under this scheme?
Have travel times reduced as much for Brum and wolves’ residents and businesses.

If the toll had been cheaper (or free) many more cars and lorries would have bypassed the local area , created less stationary traffic and fumes. Businesses would have been charged less for transport. More dads would have got home in time to read with their kids before bed time.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Soz !
Biz got rich by building/operating the toll road.
Gov got richer by paying nothing, and still getting road tax from cars using it.
Stationary traffic uses more fuel, equals more tax.
A no-lose situation for Gov and Biz (sorry, for GovBiz, since the line between them is non-existent) (due largely to the corrupt polos who flit between both and get paid by both, for stitching us up with crap taxes and big wallets. Theirs.)

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

The tolls on the M6 have gone up, year on year to, I think, £4.50 each way, for a 20 minute drive, its unbridled greed on an unprecedented scale!

No doubt the M6 Toll Company will blame the lack of users, claiming they have to charge more to make the projected profits on the back of which they secured their investment. If this is their grasp on business practice then I despair! We had a similar "catch 22" when service messes introduced the much-hated "pay as you dine"; they claimed they could not afford to provide top quality meals (and still make a profit) because not enough people were using it, and people weren't using it because they were paying for sh*t food!

I think the government should tell the operators that they've had their chance, the road has paid for itself and returned a tidy profit, but its being mismanaged, and compulsorily purchase it, open it for all and see a real distribution of traffic, rather than a 3x3 Lexus Lane across northern Birmingham.

No, I am neither a socialist nor a hippy, merely a proponent of common sense!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

One thing worth considering is that the M6 toll has a reputation for being heavily policed by unmarked Volvos such that you daren't go above 75mph on it, and it's easy to wander above 75mph on a mostly empty motorway.

Much safer to use the M6, and in the evening you can probably go faster on it too.

They should experiment with setting the speed limit to 100 and then see if more people use it. (and see how many accidents there are)

Lum - not heard of that before, I consider it the autobahn of the UK - a free for all and whenever I've been on it there has rarely been anyone below 80mph! Oh how people hear such vastly different things! I've only used it around 8-10 times, each time when it's said "M6 Congestion, use Toll" or something similar, only to arrive at the other end of the toll with no congestion visible and traffic joining freely!

I've seen several cars pulled over by said unmarked Volvos. One such Volvo nearly took my front bumper off, the 'speeding' vehicle overtook me and pulled in front with reasonable consideration, and the following Volvo changed lanes to follow it without even noticing I was there, slammed on the anchors and got a nice close up look at the flashing red+blue lights in the rear windscreen before overtaking the idiot.

These days I just use the M5, for obvious reasons

Probably because most of the traffic centres around the M5/A38/M42 junctions. They did at least put some thought into where to locate it!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

M6 Toll? I've never used it and I never will.. Which got me thinking, what would I want to go south for anyway?

Sunshine ?

If you see any on the way ... you know the routine..

Pix or it didn't happen !!

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The Box said "Windows XP or better" ... So I installed Ubuntu

Maybe that’s what it’s all about, pricing the ordinary motorist and hauliers off the road, and cutting congestion down at the same time. There’s still talk of road pricing coming in which, in my opinion will be used for the same reasons, pricing the ordinary public and hauliers off the road.

Link to today's paper 'Spy-in-the-sky' paves way for road pricing

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

It looks as if [parts of] the gov have realised that their chances of being re-elected to government are nil, so they are going for a total wipeout instead of just losing an election.
Looks like it's going to be:
Conservative 1
LibDem 2
Bnp 3
MRLP 4
Labour 5

They won't have to bother about the cost of driving, they'll be on their bikes.
Interesting to note that if their is a swing to [anyone] of 15 points, none of the current cabinet will be re-elected. And it looks like Gordons electorate are not going to vote him in again, so it doesn't matter if labour scrape-in .... he won't.
The main problem is going to be:
The full-time-not-voted-in-and-undemocratic-civil-servants that want the social-tracking-and-surveillance "road pricing" system will still be working-away in the background.
We could always try to make the next election a single issue election: who runs the country, our elected representatives or unelected social-climbing and lavender-shirted civil servants ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Mmmh! well, Only a slight disagreement with you there Jomukuk.

Cons 2
Libs 3
BNP 4
MRLP 5
Noo Labia, i.e. (Noo cons) 6
Old Labour 1 (but no-one to vote for)

..and if you want to know who runs our country it's the party elite at the behest of MI5 via the auspices of the Party whip who threatens elected MP's to vote against their voters wishes under threat of deselection..... simple really.
In other words, we are the cattle in the field who thinks that the farmer is our friend because he gives us food....

This, they tell us....Is called: "Democracy"

I have said this before, The only way we will be able to force change is to follow the following stratagy.

At the next election, Look at your ballot paper.

Do One of two things;

1) Spoil it! ("Spoilt" ballots are counted and the number polled is stated at the count! If "Spoilt" ballots exceeded that of any of the candidates it would be VERY embarassing!)

2) Look at who is standing, Mentally ignore the LibLabCon. Pick one of the others, It doesnt really matter which! Someone you like! Someone who you might think has the best chance of winning! The important thing is NOT to vote for the LibLabCon!

Yep, If this stratagy has the desired effect the result will be somewhat "Interesting" (In the Jap/Chinese meaning ) but would it really be worse than 5 more years of the same old crap!

Or are you just going to go out and vote aginst the person you dont like, Just like last time, and the time before! (Good little sheeple!)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

To make you thankful for being so far north . (The farther north ,the better )

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Dusty, you're absolutely right.............
And Botach, You're right too.............

The NORF is:............(civilised) (well nearly so by now) and if I want sun I get a plane or a ferry..........

I didn't use the M6 toll last week when I needed to go south, and the same for the return journey.

My God! I hope I don't need to do that journey again anytime soon...