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 Post subject: Ice
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 16:20 
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If you think ice on the road is a problem at this time of year you should try canal boating. I have just come back from helping to con a Christmas lunch cruise on the Judith Mary which is a floating narrow boat restaurant on the Peak Forest canal. Three inches of ice on the canal . We managed to smash our way through it for about a mile before deciding that the hull wouldn't take any more. Which left us to reverse a mile through the ice floes. The punters having their lunch enjoyed it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 18:42 
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Oouch, bit surprised they tried in the first place ! A mile of smashing ice hey !
Now if they had a heat pad on the front of the boat and melted the ice then that would have worked with much less effort and hassle !
That must have been exhausting if you helped to break it up or was it the hull that was doing all the work?!

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 19:21 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Oouch, bit surprised they tried in the first place ! A mile of smashing ice hey !
Now if they had a heat pad on the front of the boat and melted the ice then that would have worked with much less effort and hassle !
That must have been exhausting if you helped to break it up or was it the hull that was doing all the work?!


The hull. We just drove at the ice at ramming speed (4mph) until we couldn't move then backed of a length and did it again. The punters had paid for a cruise and a cruise they got!

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:56 
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Maybe you should have re-named her "Endurance"

What would you have done if you had got stuck in the middle of the canal??

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 17:09 
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Dusty wrote:
Maybe you should have re-named her "Endurance"
What would you have done if you had got stuck in the middle of the canal??


Having broken the ice on the wy out we were able to go astern to get back to base.

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 19:53 
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Ice ? You havnt seen ice on water till you have seen 12 foot of ice on the St. Lawrance,
Canada. My ship only got out because the icebreakers kept open a passage.

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 23:39 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Oouch, bit surprised they tried in the first place ! A mile of smashing ice hey !
Now if they had a heat pad on the front of the boat and melted the ice then that would have worked with much less effort and hassle !
That must have been exhausting if you helped to break it up or was it the hull that was doing all the work?!


The hull. We just drove at the ice at ramming speed (4mph) until we couldn't move then backed of a length and did it again. The punters had paid for a cruise and a cruise they got!


I might well be telling everyone stuff they already know, but I think "proper" ice-breakers tend to do their job by running the bow up on TOP of the ice (it's shaped to allow that) and then flooding ballast compartments so that the weight of the ship breaks downwards through it, then repeating the process. Trying to ram it "in shear", as it were, tends not to work too well (as you have already discovered)!


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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:11 
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Mole wrote:
I might well be telling everyone stuff they already know, but I think "proper" ice-breakers tend to do their job by running the bow up on TOP of the ice (it's shaped to allow that) and then flooding ballast compartments so that the weight of the ship breaks downwards through it, then repeating the process. Trying to ram it "in shear", as it were, tends not to work too well (as you have already discovered)!


Correct. That is why ocean ice breakers need to be so powerful (the Soviet built nuclear powered 'ones) - they have to lift themselves onto the ice. I am told that traditional canal icebreakers had a large transverse bar so that they could be rocked from side to side to side by parties of men on the towpaths.


http://www.canalmuseum.org.uk/ice/ragazzo4.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 03:11 
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With three inches of ice, you risk damaging fibreglass and wooden hulls, and steel hulls if of certain hull profile/thickness.

You would score the waterline severely at the very best.
Heat pads wouldn't work - the energy required would be huge!
Better to have a couple of crew on the bow with stout poles to break the ice! With some designs, it would be more efficient to reverse through the ice - where the counter stern can ride on the icew as Mole described, and where prop. wash can make waves below the ice and help weaken it.

Lake boats were traditionally designed to cope with ice - hence this excellent example in steel from Lake Windermere... The Esperance
Image

or on Coniston, the Gondola...
Image

The bow rides over ice and crushes it, sending the broken pieces under the surrounding ice.

If you hadn't all stopped leaving your TV's on standby instead of unplugging it at night, this cold snap would never have happened!

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 08:30 
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Quote:
With some designs, it would be more efficient to reverse through the ice - where the counter stern can ride on the icew as Mole described, and where prop. wash can make waves below the ice and help weaken it.


Serious danger of damaging or dismounting the rudder when in reverse.

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 09:30 
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Not to mention tearing the sacrificial anodes off and scoring the paint.

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 13:55 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
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With some designs, it would be more efficient to reverse through the ice - where the counter stern can ride on the ice as Mole described, and where prop. wash can make waves below the ice and help weaken it.


Serious danger of damaging or dismounting the rudder when in reverse.

Yes, I should have mentioned that suitable design would include an under the water line rudder fitment as is found on some "counter" sterns! No good on a barge with the old sternpost mounted rudder and tiller!

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 Post subject: Re: Ice
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 17:50 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:


If you hadn't all stopped leaving your TV's on standby instead of unplugging it at night, this cold snap would never have happened!


If I hadnt left my pc on for 8 years it would have been -30 :D

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