Safe Speed Forums

A small bunch of interfering local nut cases who have nothing better to do apart from spying on their neighbours and sticking their noses into other peoples business managed to get hold of a speed camera under our governments Community Speed Watch inititive and have started to set traps for people. Obviously as a local neighbour I am 1,000 times more likley to get caught than someone just passing through. They caught me LEAVING my local village into open countryside (which I usually drive very slowly through) as the limit changes from a 30 to a 40 and was caught doing 47 just before the 40 zone. Saturday morning, fine, dry, no traffic, very wide road etc etc. Now I get a letter from west midlands police. It says no further action but.... "details of the vehicle have been noted for future reference should I get detected speeding again" (by my local Stasi neighbours). Its bad enough being targetted constantly by the Police but now we get it from our own neighbours! So before I do anything about this I really must understand exactly what the law is. Can the police really do anything at all if the Stasi "catch" me even 100 times? Im not worried about letters and I am not worried about getting "a visit" from the police. In fact I would welcome that to tell them exactly what they can do with their Stasi spys. I have tried to look on the web but its full of conflicting info. Some say repeat offenders that are caught by the Stasi can then be "targetted" by the police. Can anyone give me clear legal guidance on exactly what can happen if the Stasi catch you repeatedly? I have kids and drive to road conditions over and above stupid speed limits - at times I drive well UNDER speed limits if conditions are bad. Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated but please be sure its factual. Thanks in advance.

The police can't do anything unless they catch you themselves. 100 letters mean nothing.

These schemes have been extensively discussed here before - their main purpose is to assuage local anti-speed moaners, and their main effect is to spread division and disharmony in local communities.

Is there any kind of local forum in which you can make your concerns known?

If it's any consolation, the general consensus is that these schemes tend to wither on the vine after a year or so once the volunteers realise that their efforts in fact are totally ineffective.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Just thinking out loud but...

How about filing a FOI request for any data that the "Community Speed Watch" hold about you.
If they have no data, consider suing them for libel, as they have no proof that you were speeding.
Insist on knowing the NAME of the person who allegedly "caught" you speeding.
Consider legal proceedings against this person for both slander and libel.
Put the fear back into the hands of the local Stasi!!!!

mb

So, by your own admission, you were breaking the law and were reprimanded for so doing. What is your problem?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

The people who liaise with the police over these schemes are generally the Parish Council. Get hold of the minutes of their meetings for a few months back and see if this was discussed.

PeterE is entirely correct. These schemes die away after a few months especially when the winter comes and it's raining.

If you live in a small village you may know the gun operator. You could always go round to discuss the situation with them face to face. I'm sure they would enjoy it.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Debatable point -dcb - he didn't ( to my mind anyway) admit to any speed over the limit -he said that he was caught by the part timers ,who quoted his speed as 47 - part timers ,who would possibly be laughed out of court ,if it went that far .And then again ,how can he be reprimanded -he has not been found ( according to the procedures under British Law) guilty of any crime (save driving a motor vehicle )

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes, they should actually change the procedure such that these schemes only get approval round about the end of October. That's when the roads are likely to be wettest and slippiest and the light is most likely to be poor. If it's all about safety, that's when the greatest benefit will be derived!

Not very. He said " the limit changes from a 30 to a 40 and was caught doing 47 just before the 40 zone". You cant be caught doing 47 unless you are doing 47.


Anyone can reprimand anyone else for doing something that they consider undesirable or antisocial.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Thanks everyone for the comments!!
Few points:
1. I have NOT admitted to speeding. They (the local Stasi) say I was speeding - or at least the Police have told me this following a submission to them by the Stasi. I have no way at all of understanding how accurate the geriatic doo gooders are. I was apparently caught doing 47. I have only the Police's letter for this based upon what they have been told. I have been given no proof.
2. I have no problem with any of my neighbours remonstrating with me DIRECTLY if I have done anything harmful to them or to the community. I have massive problems however in them setting speed traps with the sole aim of catching their fellow neighbours out and then reporting them to the police. This in not taking into account any circumstances such as the weather conditions or amount of traffic etc etc. There is something very wrong, I suggest, in this tactic of turning people against each other. Hitlers Youth club are really not so far removed reporting parents to the police.

Ill certainly demand more info for the police and dont see there is much harm in me asking which of my fellow neighbours is the budding Spy.

Cheers to All.

For meeting after meeting of my village Parish Council, "speeding through the village" was brought up. They had 2 speed surveys performed by the police which showed no serious problems. Of course, this wasn't enough for them, so they asked if they could form a Community Speedwatch group. The police agreed (IMO to get the moaners off their backs) and the PC asked for volunteers to use the speed measuring gun. They got one volunteer (no doubt the obsessed Parish Councillor who lives on the main road) and embarrassingly had to ditch the idea.

Funny, but the point is that I bet they still think there is a problem even though all the evidence is to the contrary.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

From my own experience, after being served a NIP in 2004 (After 50 years of driving) I started to enquire into various aspects of road safety and policing and started to hold nothing back from my correspondence to them. I also correspond with those who are now leaders in road safety. (The County Council) I fire bullets of 50 calibre into one and all and believe me they do not like it. Become a bl--dy pest, ask questions and respond with anything you consider is relevent don't let the pace of response drop. When they brand your questions and responses as "Vexactious" and refuse to answer any questions raised under the FOI act then you know you've got up their nose and they do not like it. The Council tried to opt out of paying for a damaged alloy wheel and tried to con me but I had taken pics of the situation both before and after the repairs had taken place to the pot hole and they soon sent a claim form and the cheque. You have to stand your ground and and keep firing bullets into them. They said my "dropped kerb " wasn't to spec but I sent pics of the footpaths around the area and heard nothing more. I no longer attend the police awards like I used to and told the C/C what to do with his invitation.One police Sgt who was in the SCP some years ago said of one of my letters that "He had never felt so insulted in his life". If they can't stand the heat, then keep out the kitchen. "Get firing." and don't feel intimidated.OLLIE. PS This has been ongoing on for the past 5 years.

ollie, I like it

Malcolm, did you hear that a speed camera had been installed on the isle of Scilly? They spoke to a taxi driver and he said you can hardly touch 30 never mind the 60 limit the camera is triggered for. The taxi driver said there had been a speed check years before but the only one to get a finger wagging was some one doing 28mph. He was a local councillor

Hey -DCB - you one of the guilty till found inn0cent group too ?

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

My sincere apologies. You would have been wiser to say allegedly caught speeding

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Not at all. I merely assumed that OP meant what he said. Rather naive of me

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I also attend Council meetings on road safety and related issues and you would be amazed at just how they operate. 99.9% of the information provided by their own personnel is accepted and passed without any questions being raised. My last objection to a 30MPH speed limit was stated as "there has been one objection." Nothing asked as to why, on what grounds, what points were raised by the objector, (which were many) have any of the points raised been assessed as reasonable or acceptable. Just local Council democracy you understand. Every meeting pass the details in front of them provided by their own personnel with a nod. It really does open one's eyes to see how they operate. (Anyone can attend them)They are to install double yellow lines near to a police station where parking is scarce and the police objected as there would be no place to park their vehicles,but, the Council knowing better rejected the objection. Not that I love the force but it does reflect the Bl--dy shambles we have to endure. OLLIE

1. As far as I am aware they cannot compel you to identify yourself as the driver at the time.

2. How can the police "target" you when they are using community speedwatch as yet another excuse to de-prioritise traffic policing?

3. Most of these schemes very quickly peter out through lack of volunteer interest, so give it a while and it'll all blow over.

All,
I am indeed one of the innocent until proven guilty brigade. What exactly am I meant to be - one of the guilty until proven innocent brigade? Whose going to prove me innocent? Luckily despite the very best attempts by our state to criminalise as many of us as possible we still (just about) are presumed innocent until found guilty by the courts (not the Police). I have no means at all of checking to see what speed I was doing 2 months ago and it was exactly 2 months to the day that the Police then wrote to me advising me that I had been "caught" by the Stasi. I cant remember anything else of what I did on that day - that is apart from seeing the Stasi as I can recall slowing down and stopping within 30 feet of them before deciding (probably correctly) that it would be wrong of me to ruin my day by causing heaps of trouble for myself by getting out and smashing their gun to little pieces. I therefore did the best thing that I could (at the time) which was to exercise some anger management and leave it for another time of my choosing rather than theirs. After all there was about 6 of them (Im told they are advised to go in groups....) and it would have been a one sided thing. The point Im making is that clearly its wrong to break the law, if indeed I did that (I have no way of knowing for sure and have been given no proof) but our State which encourages these little hitlers to set-up traps for their fellow neighbours (remember I was about exiting my village thus increasing my slow speed as I went into open countryside and I was not speeding the other way coming out of the faster stretch of road into the village where there is more of a safety issue) is causing friction between neighbours (very unwise) and certain neighbours (the ones volunteering to join the Stasi) really should either mind their own business OR, if they are really keen for road safety, to go and get properly qualified and trained and go and join the Police force. The part that also gives me an issue is the Police now telling me they are now holding my "record" on file and should I get "caught" again by the Stasi then further action may follow. This is all probably empty threats but is it correct that us innocent people should have files kept open on us following reports by the Stasi so the State can then ramp up the thing at any later date in a manner it so wishes? I will be following the suggestion made to me (thanks) to ask for this information on me under the FOI act (may as well use their own laws against them) and will be asking to see this evidence. I will copy my letter to the local Police on this thread (have to go to Germany for rest of this week but ill get it going next week) and then await their reply. I dont know how many people are getting hassle from the Stasi informed Police, clearly there are hundreds of these Stasi groups around the country and therefore several thousand people must be getting hassle. If everyone gave some back and looked to hold them to account then maybe they would go away and think harder before targetting their civilian neighbours. Yes it will all go quiet (in time) and doubtless it will blow over. However its here today and its wrong (I suggest).Cheers to you all! PS - Im in Germany maybe 30 times a year and funnily enough despite their previous culture you dont get roving bands of German citizens pointing weapon like guns at neighbours on the streets - did they learn something that we have forgotten? Just a point. Maybe next time I should dial 999 and say someone has pointed a Pistol at me and see what happens then

I would write to the C/C and ask when the Stasi were trained to use the equipment they have been given and who trained them. Those in road safety have to be trained every so often by the supplying company for such equipment so the accuracy will not be acceptable in law. Ask if you can observe how they calibrate the gun prior to opreations, Go over and ask the same of those who are operating the speed trap. As you say, they are a bl--dy nosey set of old timers who don't even know how to cross a road. OLLIE

Might be worth getting local press involved - some letters asking if this lot can be trusted to read the instructions correctly ( without a magnifying glass) -are they capable of holding the gun steady ( well those old infirm arms ain't too steady) ,with the emphasis on safety -and accuracy - remembering that some innocent motorist could get targetted on the say so of some old biddie that can't tell the make of the car . ( And is it safe for these ancients to be out on the pavement , if there's no police to be found - what's stopping them getting hit by cyclists ?)

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on