Safe Speed Forums

As a proud member of Safe Speed, I know why I am here. But I wonder why others are here, especially those who are not members, and what the attraction is?

Is it because you hate anyone who defies Government policy and you go by the book?

Is it because you truly and passionately believe that 'speed kills' and that is your guideline to safe road use and wish to counter the SS argument?

Is it because you are here for a bit of fun and want to troll? (That's something you would hide of course, or not, as a troll).

Is it because you think Safe Speed has got it right but something puts you off subscribing!??

Is it because it has attracted people who have used a search engine after they have been pinged for speeding and ‘happened’ upon ‘us’?

Intelligent debate from like-minded people? (That works for me )

We all have a viewpoint on this huge problem of road safety. We all need to get from A to B for goodness sake and lord knows this isn’t exactly the best or most civilised country when it comes to public transport.

Is it that you just want to air your views in hope that someone is listening who connects with what you feel is right?

I’m sure I could have written this better, I’ve had a long day, but I am honestly interested in any and every viewpoint, good or bad, from anyone here after what I have seen today.

Let’s face the music and see if we can’t get something positive..

Rules: No slagging off or denigrating anyone, both ways!

Why are you here?

(I know I'm just me and have no right of expectation; just hoping to gain some perspective)

Luv

Tone/Tony

PS. Just be honest...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I'm here just to read your jokes, Tone...

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I thought I was here just to get picked on Graball


Well, as I’ve mentioned before, I came here because so many people I knew at work were getting pinged and so did a quick search to see how rife the problem was and if anyone was doing anything about it.

I like the mix of people here; if you have a problem from a boil on yer bum to getting your helicopter started there’s someone here who will know. Maybe it’s the core subject, but it’s attracts a high proportion of engineers which also appeals to me.

I was particularly interested in the pro speed camera folk because if they are in favour of cameras and, presumably, go about their business feeling completely free and unimpeded then why would they actively seek out a campaign to protest in the first place?

It would be like me actively seeking out a religious forum, like Jehovah’s Witness let's say, just to post and p1ss them off when what they believe or do doesn’t affect me in my daily life and I’m sure as hell not going to convert them so why bother? See where I'm going with this?

When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion. The religion of speed cameras is coming to an end at last and the way I see it forums of merit have to educate the public and the public has to educate the Government.

Do they come here to try and discredit SS so the public, lurkers etc., will swallow the speed kills message? I can't see any other reason...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Yes, I've never understood the importance afforded by the pro-camera brigade to discrediting this campaign. They have implied many times that we are just a few "cranks" with a website. I would just ignore us if it were me.

Of course, if you are unsure of or insecure in your beliefs (or are just paying lipservice to a view because you are paid to do so) then attacking the opposition is a good way of reinforcing your position.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

The religion analogy is quite apt in some respects, I have no problem with people wanting to believe in something I find illogical. What I object to is being expected to accept and play by rules based on their beliefs.

Speed cameras are such a simplistic view of road safety that cater to only the lowest common denominator in both concept and application that I have to be against them.

In some respects coming on here is peer review for my beliefs on what constitutes good road safety. I also learn new things and enjoy having a chat on all sorts of subjects with some interesting and knowledgeable people.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

An interesting article (and paper) here that might explain a few things:
El Reg: People Like Congenial News

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

That was interesting Steve and is what I suspected about human nature. I'm sure uttering’s of speed kills will belch forth from those who support cameras long after they are gone and something else has taken their place, (hopefully more traf pol).

This is why I compare it to a religion because it reminds me of the crazy, irrational circular arguments I used to have when living in America. I was soon to learn that no amount of proof, or lack of evidence, will ever be enough. I remember the one argument a had with a woman who said she was in traffic on the highway and moved to the inside lane as a car ploughed into the back of the car in the lane she just moved from.

"I know God was looking over me. He told me to move over" Well he wasn't looking over the poor sod that got whacked very much was he? You can imagine how the rest of the argument unfolded..

I see a comparative thing happening with speed cameras and the 'blind faith' they have in them. If it’s 30 for a reason, that 30 must surely be safer in the middle of the night than during the day when people are around. A child of six could understand that simple concept and yet it's like pulling teeth to explain it to some grown men and women.

I don't think it's that they don't understand the argument, they simply don't want to understand it because you're trying to topple their faith. That’s why I would be interested, if they can be honest about it, why and what brought them here.

I conclude, as with the religious argument, everything that irritates us about others can lead us to a better understanding of ourselves.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Back to the original question:

I'm here to exchange views with a bunch of people who I consider to be pretty bright and who (for the most part) seem to feel the same way as me about matters motoring. I've learned plenty since being here and would like to think my driving might have improved a bit in that time. I also like the thought that there are quite likely to be various "lurkers" on here from the "ruling classes" who might possibly start to think about some of these views and use some of the concepts in future road safety policy.

I also like the idea of maintaining a web "voice" to counterbalance some of the other more extreme "anti-motoring" factions out there. While I have no problem with them putting their views about online, I think its good to have balance.

I started driving in 1973 when most cars were on drum brakes all round, crossply tyres, no such thing as servo assisted brakes(unless you paid extrra), even the windscreen washer was foot controlled (if you were lucky), very few people wore seat belts (virtually no- one) and a lot of cars didn't even have them, (rear seat belts were unheard of.), Hey, I remember my dad's car being really posh and having little orange "arms" sticking out from the sides as indicators (otherwise you used arm signals to turn right, left or pull over). We had winters round our way where you would have at least 3inches of snow, when it did snow, so had to learn how to drive on it or a stay at home and lose a days pay. So basically we had to "learn how to drive". We passed our test and then were thrown into the "real world" running.

We didn't have to worry about speed cameras but there were plenty of patrol cars on the road who would pull you over if they could find fault with your driving and, more often than not, advise you where you were going "wrong".
Speed limits , then, were usually, 30MPH ( urban) and 70 MPH elsewhere with the occasional 40MPH or 50MPH but you could count them on one hand for an entire county.

In those days most people stuck to the speed limit (70MPH on rural roads), (and 30MPH in towns ), you learnt to control your speed appropriately for the road in question or sailed off into the scenery, i once had a rural copper ask me, the day after being on a road rally and ending up going straight on into a ditch, (Brake calliper seized), if I had been drinking (laughing) and then went on his merry way.

I picked up two "speeding fines " within a year(around 2001), although driving no differently to how I had been driving (without incident) for about 30 years, so had to question, was I REALLY a dangerous driver, now , after 30 years of incident free driving and maybe 1 million miles covered, or just unlucky and unfortunate to be "picked on" by a government that didn't really understand safe driving at all!

Basically you "learnt" how to "drive and survive" but these days, the message is "stick to a ridiculously low limit and you can't go wrong".. yeh right...so how come so many young drivers are killing themselves?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Gotta say, you hit lots of nails all squarely on the head there Graball I'm with you there too Mole

Seems to me it's gone kinda quiet around here since the cameras have been declared surplus to requirement. Could it be that camera usage and abusage is directionally proportional to the number of people jumping on the bandwagon Could it be that it was just some people's way of getting a kick from something controversial

I know people like that in real life - and what a pain in the buttocks they are too! Only natural they should infect cyberspace as well I guess. If or when cameras are reintroduced I'm sure they'll come back like crabs on a tramp's bleep...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Because they aren't sticking to a sensible limit?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Me -as per graball -except I've been on the roads a few years longer ,and in my first years -I had an old Wolseley and drove on single track roads mostly .Thereby grew the need to keep a sharp eye out for things coming the other way(Observation) -( TWO cars into one roadwidth get BANG )-Courtesy to pass at best point /reverse for maximum benefit, Concentrate on the bits of the road ahead , anticipate where best to meet ,with adjustment of speed to suit, Speed suited to conditions( ability to stop/get round corner) , and most of all if in emergency , Time to stop .
Police - on our area ,Police were our friends .I did get stopped once (had L plates on car - sister had been practising),got producer as my licence was off for renewal ( days when it got renewed every three years) .I knew it would take weeks to get back from Swansea ,so nominated my local station( the house next door) .Got home to ask Sergeant for advice - "Don't worry ,I Know you have a licence - let me see it when it comes back" -I did ,and never heard any more -but I did get a bit more respect from the plod in that other area .
Now speeding /driving standards - I'd always looked on this sort of thing as a sport - the Police had a presence -if you ignored them -you deserved to get done .Then one day ,I passed approached a motorway bridge at a touch over 70 - and caught a glimpse of a camera on the bridge ( nowadays I'd have seen it long way off ,but in those days, my attention was on the traffic , I was on L2 ,L1 was full approaching an exit ,with cars overtaking in L3 to try to get into the overcrowded L1 .)
So ,I decided to find out more .Knowledge ( to me )is power .Somehow on my Google ,this site came up . I read some of the articles Paul had written and saw a site that thought as I did -asking about the wisdom and safety of setting Speed as the God of road safety .( As in "Thou shall have no other Gods before me").

Now to the newbies - I've been driving 44 years - and on the approx six years since I've been on here - I've learned more from the advanced members ( possibly they've just made me aware of things I've been doing for almost half a centuary) -but NO ONE WILL CONDEMN -they will advise ,and try to help -because we all believe that road safety ,and the safety of others is the responsibility of all on the roads , be we HGV/CAR/CYCLE /PEDESTRIAN .And that's in spite of the various bodies ( and the misleading views of some posters on here) .
Me - I started off life on the roads as a cyclist - until nineteen I was a cyclist ,got my car licence ,but still cycled , at forty one ,I got backon a bike , at forty two back into a car ,but that teenager on a bike -could be my gran daughter( or the bloke on a pedal one coild be my son) -that bloke on a bike -could be my Son in Law ( my youngest kids love of her life) , or even a daughter -

That's the way we should be looking at road safety - but ultimately as a driver allowing that even on a best day - someone might make a fatal mistake ,AND ACT THAT THEY COULD . As said on railway safety manuals -"do nothing UNTIL a real understanding of what each party will be expected to do is ESTABLISHED).

I WILL SAY ONE THING - ASK YOURSELF if A FIVER £5 per month IS A SMALL PRICE TO PAY to support an organisation that is dedicated to exposing the fallacies on the benefits of the religion of SPEED .
OH- and yes- you'll get a LOT of road safety advice , no real criticism of your driving ( if you ask for help) and perhaps a lot of help to make you a safer driver .( But that's free anyway -but you might like the company ) -

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Come on then dcb- you going to winge ( as always) or reach for the "join SS " BIT .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I don't understand?

Who is attacking whom or what here

I agree with you Graball 100%

dcb... You have never, to my recollection, asked a question which wasn't either pertinent or loaded. I do that too sometimes

Maybe tomorrow will bring enlightenment...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Or, because the limits have been devalued? Or some other reason completely unrelated to speed in any form?

So why are you here Dave?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I might be wrong about the country in general but where I live , it seems that most of the younger drivers getting killed aren't getting killed because they are ripping about in 30MPH limits at 50MPH but seem to be getting killed on country roads by either poor overtaking or leaving the road on a sharp bend, which probably means that they aren't neccessarily exceeding a posted limit when they are "coming a cropper", so once again it's the old adage of inappropriate speed or bad driving, which is killing them, not a case of not sticking to a limit. Again it's a case of "i'm within the limit , so I must be safe", except that 59MPh isn't that safe when you approach a 90 degree bend on muddy country road on a wet evening.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I am not sufficiently sympathetic to the entire ouvre of Safe Speed to be prepared to join; nor do I think that your campaigning on the aspects with which I do agree are very effective. If that offends a significant number of members; or if those members are unable to with cope contrary argument without denigrating it as whinging then perhaps I should cease posting.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Some people are attacking me, in the absence of Weep, because I don't agree 100% with them or because they won't try to understand what I am saying. My reply to Graball was trying to condense into a short phrase my opinion that exceeding the speed limit does sometimes lead to serious accidents; that only when new drivers arrive from the test centre clutching their pass certificate they have the same experience as Graball or Botach or you and are not overloaded with testosterone - only then could we implement the Safe Speed nirvana where everyone forms their own judgement of what speed to drive



I agree that Graballs is quite correct about the way the world was 35years ago but he overlooks thre fact that the volume of traffic has increased by an order of magnitude since then.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Perhaps I should have said "sensible speed"

If by that you are reiterating (or pre-itering) Gaballs point that the emphasise on speed limits has led people to believe that driving below the limit is intrinsically safe then no.

Indeed. The high attrition amongst young male drivers is largely due to them being young and male.


If I were feeling uncharitable I might say that I was here to try and drag some dinosaur motorists into a twenty-first century where the car is no longer king and the motorist has to accept that other road users have equal rights. But I won't.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Perhaps cease posting in this thread if you are trying to derail it in the usual way.

I'm here because I have felt for years that there was far more to road safety than numerical speed, and that with limited resources at society's disposal, we were going about accident reduction in the wrong way. As far as I could tell, road safety had been taken over by people who just don't like cars, to whom the word 'evidence' may as well have been in martian.

I can't remember how I discovered Safespeed, but when I did it was like coming home.