Safe Speed Forums

Probably because they are based in huddersfield ?

And here's their latest claptrap

Brake is backing the Lighter Later campaign, which calls on the Government to change the clocks for good to GMT +1 in the winter and GMT +2 in the summer.

http://www.brake.org.uk/national-charit ... ks-go-back


Moderator message:
This thread has been split from an ongoing one here.

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nigel_bytes

Why do you consider that to be claptrap? There is good evidence from the 1969-1972 trial that remaining on GMT + 1 in the winter reduced road deaths.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

...and who is behind the Lighter Later campaign - none other than 10:10 of "exploding children" fame

mb

...you need to be careful about comparing apples with apples on that one.

During the trial there was a massive publicity campaign and school-kids wore fluorescent "diddy jackets" making them highly visible. If you did a similar thing without changing the time you would probably get similar results. I say "probably" because in those days kids walked to school whereas nowadays they tend to be driven so there is no like for like comparison.

mb

I remember those trials but thought it was returned to normal because it either made no difference or made it worse. If it made things better, why wasn't it kept on?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I reckon this is one case where keeping the message but shooting the messenger may be justified.

I would have no problem with keeping GMT+1 in winter - at least I'd get to drive home while it's still light.
Or, alternatively, make it possible for individual people or organisations to choose whether or not to start work one hour later.



Since when is whether or not it works regarded as a criterion in politics? Witness the "trial" 70mph motorway speed limit. It didn't work, but they kept it anyway.
I suspect that the strongest opposition to keeping it on came from north of the border.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

That’s right Pete.
There was a BBC morning TV program the other day with handsome Charlie Stayt and the lovely Susanna Reid who asked people to go outside at 7:30 a.m. to take a picture and send them in.

Kent looked lovely and bright whereas the one of Inverness could have been taken with the lens cap still on.

Tone

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

The standard political thing. Say ten more children were killed in the darker mornings and 100 fewer died in the lighter evenings. That is ten weeping Mothers on television, lobbying their MP etc. But the 100 who lived are only statistics with no one to speak for them. That and the Scottish farmers, of course

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

In winter there is less daylight in Scotland than in Kent. Fact. No amount of messing with the clocks can change that. Leave the clocks alone and let people determine their own most convenient working hours.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I think the issue is about when, as opposed to how much.


What about schooling hours?

I think I should split the thread.
edit: done!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Me, I would be more than happy for Summer time/double summer time, Mainly cos Im a lazy sod who doesnt do much in the mornings anyway but would rather thave light afternoons/evenings.

Just as long as they dont call it "Central European Time" In which case I would vigourously oppose it as a matter of principle.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

What about them. Each region should determine its own school hours. Those to in the furthest North and West would probably be later than those in the South-East

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I'm 100% with dcb on this one .

I find it odd that society won't tinker around with school hours, but finds it acceptable - effectively - to lie about what time it is.

This is one subject which really gets my goat!!
It's great to see DCB speaking out in harmony with me!

I used to work nights, and feel it gives me a slightly more informed perspective, so forgive me if I upset anyones sensibilities!

Never has any subject generated so much claptrap and misinformation. NOBODY would believe it if if they simply looked at it rationally.

No amount of changing the clocks will make it darker or lighter ANYWHERE in the world. The sun rises and the sun sets predictably.
We already deal with other countries all around the world by telephone, email etc., who have different times to us - so why complicate things further by altering our OWN time pieces?

Make kids safer? Bollocks.
They spend a few minutes getting to school, but hours playing out in the dark in the evening and at night!
As already pointed out, very few walk to school these days!

Yesterday a friend went walking on the fells, and forgot that it would get dark earlier - and it turned misty.
He and his companion ended up having to come off the fells early, and ended up in Borrowdale instead of Langdale. Look on the map - it's only a matter of a very few miles - but in order to collect them and return them to their car, I had to make a 60 mile trip! It COULD have been dangerous - and all because of the damned clocks being fiddled with.

When I worked nights, the night staff (me) had to work an hour extra in October - so the day staff could start at the normal time.
In the Spring, you had an hour less to complete all the usual jobs, plus the extra work load of altering all the clocks in the building, and ensuring all the day staff were up in time to work - and often ended up being asked to stop on to catch up, or help the day staff who could not get up after an hour's less sleep all because of the damned clocks being fiddled with.

People on time dependent medicines and medications have to get up at their "usual" time - then spend a week or two adjusting their times to suite - twice a year - all because of the damned clocks being fiddled with.

Cows expect to be milked at the same time every day, so in the autumn, the farmers have to get up an hour earlier than the rest of us, until the animals adjust - and in spring, the farmer has to alter his schedule to suit the later milking time - all because of the damned clocks being fiddled with.

And finally, anyone with young kids knows that when the hour goes back, they still wake up at their usual time - and then wake their parents up early too! And guess what - it's all because of the damned clocks being fiddled with.

Now there is a thing... how many clocks in factories, hospitals, hotels, shops, etc. etc. have to be altered? How many time clocks, older heating programers, lighting controllers have to be altered? Yesterday, several streets in Windermere which don't have light sensors were left switched on for an extra hour. WHO pays for all those clocks to be altered in commercial premises (i.e. outside of the home) etc?
WE DO - in some way or another YOU and I will pay - twice a year!

ROSPA figures show accidents increase after the clocks are changed - and I feel certian this does not just apply to the roads!

STOP IT - there is no good reason to try and stop time by fiddling with the clocks!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Adding to Ernest's post:

For the past two days I've had the cat jump on my head at 5am - all because of the damned clocks being fiddled with.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

It does make a lot of sense to have the transit point of the sun occur at 13:00 instead of 12:00 during winter. This way most commuters can have most of their journeys in 'civil twilight'. Civil twilight, during the shortest day, would extend from (depending on location) 08:30 to 17:30 with GMT+1.
This doesn't apply during the summer when we get so much light-time anyway.
Does it ever get dark in Scotland during winter?

Now if Brake had proposed GMT+1 instead of fiddling between GMT+1 & GMT+2...

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

It's dark ALL winter in Scotland - even at mid day you'd think you were on the set of the next Lord of the Rings movie!

If you work 9 - 5 anywhere north of Birmingham and commute, there is a pretty good chance you will go one way or the other in twilight or darkness!
I know it is going to be dark when I go home for the next 4 months... so I just got some extra lights for my bike - one to light up the cycle path (which has no white lines!) and one to dazzle car drivers who think they are beyond having to dip their lights for cyclists! If that doesn't work, I'm getting an LED Lenser X21 - see how they like them apples!!

It's no use looking it up on the internet - you simply MUST see one in action to appreciate it!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I have a distant cousin of it: a 1300 lumen LED torch. I know exactly what you mean - flippin eck!

Even that is shadowed by something bigger, by my 35W HID torch Get one of them !!! That'll take away the GMT blues

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

But that is quite impossible to realise as there is about 40 minutes difference in the time of local noon between the most Easterly and most Westerly parts of the United Kingdom.
And is the time of commuting is fixed by some immutable law? It seems to me that it would be much more sensible to leave the clocks alone and allow people to arrange there working hours around the available daylight.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I said "most" not 'all'. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but ...
I suspect there would be greatest general acceptance of the middle ground, with a small minority having up to +/- 20mins offset either side (during only the worst few weeks).

Do you prefer to remain at GMT, or move to GMT+1? (assuming no fiddling in either case; I suspect most don't like the fiddling)

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign