Safe Speed Forums

Oh and Steve, did you hear the guy, trying to be the nice cyclist by staying out of the way of cars by riding in the gutter, bad idea as he discovered quite quickly!


Moderator message:
These off topic posts have been split from another thread here.

Did you hear about the N=1 sample size fallacy? Evidently not!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Straw man, never said it did.

By extension then you close pass cyclists you feel are not genuine cyclists, or at least implying you don't give them as much room as others?

How do you tell which ones to cut up?

And I never said you said otherwise. It is apparent that you don't know what a strawman is.

You can claim strawman if I said something along the lines of: 'so you think relying on others to be safe absolves yourself of that responsibility (?) '; fortunately, I made no such implication.

It is difficult to ignore the fact that you have instead demonstrated an example of hypocrisy, just a few posts ago in this very thread.
Oh, and your next post is another. Hypocrisy abound!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

bit late to this thread .. can someone filter the bickering for me and summarise where we've got to ?

Why do you ALWAYS ASSUME ( read the thing on assume -ASS - U ME ) /read into what other say that they have double standards -or it because YOU have .

FYI - I always go out of my way to assist Genuine cyclists , and make sure that I help them whereever possible . The chav cyclists get even more room - the only cutting up is to make certain that there's as little room as possible between my car and kerb ,as they seem to want to pass on the inside .BTW -which camp do you fall into - chav or genuine -
from your animousity ,I'd put you in the ANgRY CYCLIST camp ,and certainly not a good advert for the cycling fraternity .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Wow, that's a pretty strong word to use.

In what way are the two posts you've highlighted hypocrisy?

Hi -WEEPY -you've stuck up another post .Care to answer my question "Why do you ALWAYS ASSUME ( read the thing on assume -ASS - U ME ) /read into what other say that they have double standards -or it because YOU have .(double standards)"

OR -is this ANOTHER question that you'll chose to ignore -like the others that you fin convenient to ignore .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

So you really can't see how you have been behaving in the manner that you have been condemning others for? Unless you can explain how your posts didn’t contain strawmans?


I find it telling that you picked up on the minutiae, but not even acknowledged the substance. Thus I could venture that your involvement within the intended discussion has concluded, but I might be wrongly accused of strawmanning - again!

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

In a word - Where's the biker troll one when you need it ?

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Well, there you go.

Well, I know what he meant even if you have chosen to misinterpret it.

As a "White Van Driver" my view to the nearside is limited. I have good mirrors and they are properly adjusted but there are still blindspots alongside the vehicle that can hide a car if it is in the right (wrong) position. A cyclist is no problem!

If we are going to live in a world where there is effectivly a presumption of guilt against motorists whenever a cyclist/motorcyclist is hit, then it is in the motorists interests to minimise the liklyhood of such collisions happening because the two wheeler is traveling through vehicle NS blind spots.

So to that end, in slow or stop start traffic (especially on the approach to junctions) I am inclined to hug the kerb to in order to prevent this from happening!

As do many others....

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

In all my cycling life I don't think I've ever seen a driver purposefully hugging the kerb to stop cyclists passing them on their left hand side, and I pass hundreds of cars every day.

I have a motorcyclist friend who says he sometimes sees people clock him filtering in their rear view mirrors and sees them purposefully move over to block his path, maybe he's had the misfortune to meet you two on the road?!

Nice try!
That cannot be used to support your claim. That wasn't one of the two posts I was referring to; the links to those have already been given.
Not only does my claim against you stand, but you have now tried to support your stance by using evidence subsequent to the claim, instead of responding to the request for you to explain how the prior posts supported your claim.

What the point of continuing with you when you make false claims of poor arguments, then hypocritically make the same poor arguments yourself, not explaining/accepting/recanting them despite rebuttal, then ignoring the substance of what was being discussed, then twisting the evidence supporting your claim, then moving onto something new?

Given my previous prompting, can we accept I take it the point, of the level of all-round responsibility, has concluded?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Let's remind ourselves of what botach originally wrote shall we.

I have no problem with genuine cyclists -indeed I'll go out of my way on the road to help them and give them a wie berth .

Unsaid in that, but implied is that "non genuine" cyclists are treated differently from genuine cyclists, not helped, hindered. Botach later admits to cutting them up, punishment if he feels they are not behaving well.

On the other point, I suggested pedestrians and carriage drivers will always have to interact, unless one thinks that pavements should be totally separated from roads throughout the entire road network, where's the strawman in that?

Oh weepej, you really are so selective, aren't you. What about your other sentence within your post that you didn't quote?


Strawman!
This was before any mention of 'cutting up', so the strawman holds.

Then follows the misrepresentation:


There is a great difference between leaving a gap and preventing a left-side pass. You did realise that, didn't you?


Where did that come from? All I read is "as they seem to want to pass on the inside". Go back and read it


Oh for the love of god! And yet you had the nerve to claim that I strawmanned you! How can you reconcile your claim that my post was a strawman yet argue that yours wasn't?

So what happened to the "building 10 foot high wire fences the length and breath of the UK's road network?" Wiki: Strawman
So so conveniently selective ....

If you are going to play at claiming fallacies, make sure you: a) make sure your claim is valid; b) don't commit them yourself, especially so many of them!
You really are an immensely silly boy

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Oh dear, reduced to name calling!?

Why "reduced" when it was part of something much more considerable? It now appears that you also don't know what "reduced" means!

Given that you completely ignored everything else in the post, I would say it is actually a justified observation.
Here is your chance to prove me wrong. Go back and answer the 5 questions posed to you, otherwise let that name be held against you.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

As an ex van driver that is one reason-(to stop akami kazi cyclist practicising his craft .) The other reasonsare to stop some idiot trying to get inside of me when I'm indicating left ( an oh yes weepy - some have trie ,fortunately i spotted them first) .Thir reason is to stop some cyclist ,who cannot judge with of it's transport thying to get into a narrowgap .
BTW -weepy-i asked you some questions -are you going to do me the courtesy of answering them ,or in your usual fashionignore them ,because you cannot come up with a reasonable answer that don't involve slaging off car drivers .I conclude that with your attitude ,roads are becoming more dangerous .perhaps you might care to answer that one as well as the od dozen or so questions other postershave put to you .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on