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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 17:15 
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Sorry for two cycling-related posts in one day, but I've neglected to tell you about the latest Polish fad - Borisbikes. Not the Barclays ones, of course, but the same principle. The Polish ones are operated by BikeOne - which charges about £3 per week plus 60p an hour. But be careful - Polish police have a zero-tolerance approach to drinking and cycling; over 4,500 Poles are currently banged-up in jail for being caught over the limit a second time, with 51,000 convicted every year. A first offence will earn a heavy fine and a suspended sentence, activated on a second offence. About 8 months is the average, with release on licence after 4 months, though the incapably drunk cyclist may get up to ten years.

Cycling Poles are not happy. "Against a European background, Poland is like Saudi Arabia" complained one to Polish daily Gazeta. The UK and Scandinavia have no drink limits for cyclists. Arrest numbers for suspected drunk cycling of 73,000 in 2011 against 110,000 car drivers arrested shows just how seriously the Polish police treat this offence. Cyclists protest that in the period 2006 - 2011 only a single fatality was caused by a drunken cyclist, that Polish police hide in the bushes on lakeside paths where only walkers and cyclists have access, and that they hide outside the 24hr Alkohol skleps.

Tadeusz laughs as he tells Gazeta of his British experience "I lived in England for about seven years. About three years ago (OK maybe I shouldn't brag) I was riding drunk on the pavement; very drunk, with a can in my hand. I was detained by a policeman also riding a bike, who lectured me on drunk riding and made me throw my can in a waste bin. I was really upset and gave him some verbal - and all he could do was give me an £80 ticket for no brakes!"

Andrew's experience in Poland was somewhat different. He was first caught in 2010 cycling home from watching a soccer match when he was stopped by police - paying a hefty fine and being banned from owning a bike for a year, as well as a suspended prison sentence. In 2011, his ban up, he bought another bike - but got only 12m from the bike shop when he was stopped; this time he got six months in prison and a two year ban on having a bike.

And cyclists think they've got it hard here?


http://raedwald.blogspot.co.uk/

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 08:23 
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I confess to cycling when over a motor vehicle limit but I never used to get wrecked, so was quite capable of staying upright and not wandering dangerously.

I'm in two minds about whether something should be done about drunken cyclists because a) I never see any that I'm aware of and b) If it's not a problem affecting other road users then why interfere.

The slippery slope to that would be to start legislating against getting drunk anywhere, at a pub or in your own house, because you could be a danger to others or yourself, and it's an unhealthy activity.

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 08:55 
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Big Tone wrote:
I'm in two minds about whether something should be done about drunken cyclists because a) I never see any that I'm aware of and b) If it's not a problem affecting other road users then why interfere.

Well, try telling that to Jane Nicholls.

And it looks like the guy convicted in that case - Darren Ingham - has gone on to have further difficulties with the law.

Sounds like a really charming individual :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 09:10 
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He looks like a scumbag Peter. I don't know if its just me or the way they take pictures of scumbags but when I see them they always 'look like the type'.

The thing is these incidents are the exception, thank goodness, so if you start legislating for rare occasions the world becomes a very silly place. If they're not rare then fair enough; something needs to be done.

That moron was gong way too fast for that situation, after a beer or two I find it hard to get up to 10mph. It's cyclists like him who give all other cyclists a bad name. The bicycle isn't to blame, he'd probably be dangerous and irresponsible with baby's rattle.

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 09:20 
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PeterE wrote:
And it looks like the guy convicted in that case - Darren Ingham - has gone on to have further difficulties with the law.

Sounds like a really charming individual :roll:


I think that the, as you so ironically phrase it, "charm" of the individual is much more apposite than the fact that he was using a bicycle at the time. I suspec that he would have assaulted the traffic warden even if he had been on foot.

And the first case illustrates that there is already perfectly adequate legislation in place to deal with drunken cyclists. It has been an offence to drunk in charge of a pedal cycle for over a century. But the offence is to be drunk - incapable of controlling the machine - rather than being over some arbitrary limit which has no relationship to the ability to ride safely.

The case quoted is very unusual. The usual victim of drunken cycling is the cyclist himself and, as we have discussed elsewhere, legislating to protect people from themselves is a slippery slope.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:47 
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Last time I was at work I should have perused the slippery-slope of the Health and Safety at Work (etc) act.
Designed to stop people injuring themselves and others.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 23:16 
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The usual victim of drunken cycling is the cyclist himself


As is the usual victim of drunken driving (At least in the serious accidents), I am sure I read somewhere that around 70% of DD fatalities are actually the DD him/her self and/or, his/her, passangers (IE sort of willing participents). The extent to which "Innocent bystanders" are routinely mown down by drunken drivers is somewhat exagerated!

But then thats Politics! :scratchchin:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 00:02 
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Although sad, I tend to think there's a sort of poetic justice when someone suffers the consequences of their own actions alone.

When I was young I had the odd mishap. :whome: I learnt from it and more luck than judgement, if I'm honest, lived to tell the tail.

How best to get from what I was in my teens to who I am today is another question; one which is sadly being answered by just one sound bite "speed kills".

By the same token, It's farcical that the safest drivers are getting done on that most simplistic of reasoning to the detrimemt of true holistic road safety.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 20:24 
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Big Tone wrote:

How best to get from what I was in my teens to who I am today is another question; one which is sadly being answered by just one sound bite "speed kills".


Being answered - possibly. Being addressed - that's like putting a wheel on the car and saying that you only need one wheelnut to secure the wheel . :loco:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 14:57 
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Sadly the former application of enforcement is rapidly moving away from 'fair and proportionate' delivered by Police persons to Council and other 'officials' who have little grasp of Law or fair or proportionate, they are there 'just' to 'do their automated job'. :(
We are giving up common sense in favour of litigation .. which will have the effect of all rules and regulations becoming ever more precise and numerous!
There are current laws that have been properly applied here to help to try and prevent re-occurrences and that is good.
Whether the 'warden' was doing their job in a fair and appropriate manner is not discussed.

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