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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 17:25 
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Making it difficult as possible doesn't mean I compromise anyone's safety at any time. I would not and could not do this. Going as close to the kerb whilst stopped at a junction so that a cyclist can't undertake isn't going to hurt anyone, appart from making the scumbag actually have to wait at the traffic lights rather than going through on red as they always seem to do. You mention insurance, what about the cyclist? IMO they ought to have insurance the way some of them ride, I'm outraged by the danger to pedestrians they often cause and danger to themselves too.

Oh yeah, and the reason I've come on here is because I'm a car nut and enthusiastic on making the roads I use daily safer places. I also wish this because people I care about use the road on a daily basis, so please don't accuse me of being dangerous, I'm most certainly not dangerous, awkward, well, yes I am, and this is what I'm admitting too, you and other cyclists won't like this, but what I do won't kill anyone, and at least I'm honest, I bet I'm not the only one that gets fed up of cyclists and does this, even on this forum. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 17:39 
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daveyboy wrote:
Making it difficult as possible doesn't mean I compromise anyone's safety at any time.


Actually it probably does. When people get stressed they are more likely to make mistakes. Mistakes on the road cause crashes and crashes cause fatalities.

I urge you to reconsider and find stress-reducing, rather than stress-increasing, methods and motivations.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 17:54 
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Until yesterday I was very indifferent towards cyclists but the other day was very much an eye-opener. There were 2 occasions which shocked me. The first was on the A574 heading towards Blackburn where I rounded the corner and found a group of about 25 cyclists riding 3/4 abreast. Now I don't particularly like it when cyclist ride abreast, but normally its no problem, I just treat them like a car and overtake were I can. However, this group positioned themselves, perhaps on purpose but I'll say accidentally to give them the benefit of the doubt, in a way that meant their total length was about 1 and half times the length of a HGV. They were spaced out, but as they were 3/4 abreast there was no way you could pull back in if you tried to overtake individually. Effectively they created a rolling road block, doing 10mph at best up the hills. Now I can appriciate tractors and the like doing this, as they are earning a living and pay tax but to do so as a leisure activity seems to me to be a bit anti-social. I'm not saying people shouldn't enjoy cycling, but the militants give it a bad name who seem to enjoy holding people up.

The second occasion was someone who was riding close to the pavement, then suddenly, without a hand signal, a sholder check, or even positioning himself to the centre, turned right, immidiatly in front of me. I was planning, and could so no reason why I couldn't, to overtake him :o .

Now I refuse to let these two instances affect the way I think or treat cyclists as they are fairly extreme one-off's that were a coincidence, but I am getting a little bit fed-up with the scant regard some cylists seem to pay to the highway code. We all need to take care on the road, but too many cyclists seem to think that red lights don't apply to them and riding on the pavement is perfectly acceptable.

I am personally in favour of the police taking more of an interest in the some of the dangerous acts that are commited my cyclists, as they quite rightly do with car drivers. That does not have to been draconian restrictions and over-zealous enforcement, but a bit of common-sense and the odd talking too. The militant element(probably quite small to be fair) seem to think they are above the law and that the highway code does not apply to them. That should be addressed.


Last edited by Capri2.8i on Wed Aug 31, 2005 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 18:40 
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DaveyBoy wrote:
Going as close to the kerb whilst stopped at a junction so that a cyclist can't undertake

actually it just forces us to ride around the other side of you

daveyboy wrote:
You mention insurance, what about the cyclist? IMO they ought to have insurance the way some of them ride,

well I do but that's because I'm more worried about the million or so uninsured drivers on the road. I remind you again that it's motorists that normally take out cyclists, not the other way around, for obvious reasons.

Capri2.8i wrote:
The militant element(probably quite small to be fair) seem to think they are above the law and that the highway code does not apply to them. That should be addressed.

I agree entirely, if for no other reason than to stop people like Davey taking out their frustrations on the rest of us.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 19:34 
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Until yesterday I was very indifferent towards motorists but the other day was very much an eye-opener. There were 2 occasions which shocked me. The first was on the A197 heading towards Morpeth where I rounded the corner and found many hundreds of cars crawling along nose to tail. Now I don't particularly like it when cagers drive nose to tail, but normally its no problem, I just treat them like dolts and overtake where I can. However, this group positioned themselves, perhaps on purpose but I'll say accidentally to give them the benefit of the doubt, in a way that meant their total length was about 1 and half miles. They weren't spaced out, and as they comprised jerks who can't imagine commuting without taking a cage the size of a small living room and weighing a ton with them to work there was no way you could pull back in if you tried to overtake individually. Effectively they created a rolling road block, doing 2mph at best through the town. Now I can appriciate tractors and the like doing this, as they are earning a living and pay tax but to do so as a commuting activity seems to me to be a bit anti-social. I'm not saying people shouldn't enjoy motoring, but the militants give it a bad name who seem to enjoy holding people up.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 19:50 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
daveyboy wrote:
Making it difficult as possible doesn't mean I compromise anyone's safety at any time.

Actually it probably does. When people get stressed they are more likely to make mistakes. Mistakes on the road cause crashes and crashes cause fatalities.

Yes, it's never a good idea to drive with the intention of "teaching someone a lesson".

Tolerance of others - even if they are silly, unobservant or take unnecessary risks - is essential for safe co-operation on the roads.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 19:54 
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I'd like to remind some of the posters in this thread that road safety depends on CO-OPERATION. Other road users using different 'modes' are entitled to their space too. We're all equal on the road in terms of rights and responsibilities.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 19:58 
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PeterE wrote:
Tolerance of others - even if they are silly, unobservant or take unnecessary risks - is essential for safe co-operation on the roads.


Snap! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 20:12 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
I'd like to remind some of the posters in this thread that road safety depends on CO-OPERATION. Other road users using different 'modes' are entitled to their space too. We're all equal on the road in terms of rights and responsibilities.


Absolutly, but it cuts both ways. In my example, co-operation would have been to have had two smaller groups cycling together with a decent space between them in order to allow vehicles to overtake safely. It perhaps was not helped by the road in quesition being frequented by scamera vans which meant the people in front of me were disinclined to overtake. It would have been safer to get past them quickly, rather then trying to obey the speed limit. I appriciate and can accept their right to enjoy cycling as a 'pack', but surely they have the responsibiolity to make sure overtaking is made as easy as possible, rather then by effectively preventing it? I'd like to think I was courteous to cyclists, I don't have any issue with them filtering and will give them space, but surely it's not too much to ask the same courtesy in return?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 20:20 
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Capri2.8i wrote:
Absolutly, but it cuts both ways.

Yes, of course it cuts both ways. A lot of cyclists display both appalling roadcraft and scant consideration for others.

But two wrongs never make a right.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 20:27 
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Capri2.8i wrote:
I appriciate and can accept their right to enjoy cycling as a 'pack', but surely they have the responsibiolity to make sure overtaking is made as easy as possible,

yes they do and a decent club will enforce this. Unfortunately as with everything else there are some bad ones around.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 20:28 
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PeterE wrote:
Capri2.8i wrote:
Absolutly, but it cuts both ways.

Yes, of course it cuts both ways. A lot of cyclists display both appalling roadcraft and scant consideration for others.

But two wrongs never make a right.


and a lot more motorists than cyclists display both appalling roadcraft and scant consideration for others, what exactly is your point other than trying to tell us you think you own the road?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 20:33 
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johnsher wrote:
PeterE wrote:
Capri2.8i wrote:
Absolutly, but it cuts both ways.

Yes, of course it cuts both ways. A lot of cyclists display both appalling roadcraft and scant consideration for others.

But two wrongs never make a right.

and a lot more motorists than cyclists display both appalling roadcraft and scant consideration for others,

That is getting a bit like the pathetic "Yah boo!" flame wars seen on Usenet. I wasn't making any comparison with the numbers or proportion of motorists.

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what exactly is your point other than trying to tell us you think you own the road?

Where did I ever say that? I was under the impression I was advocating tolerance and co-operation between different classes of road user - which should be displayed by both motorists and cyclists.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 20:41 
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PeterE wrote:
Where did I ever say that? I was under the impression I was advocating tolerance and co-operation between different classes of road user - which should be displayed by both motorists and cyclists.

yes, but you still felt the need to point out that there are lots of bad cyclists out there. Why? There are lots of bad motorists out there as well who are capable of doing a whole lot more damage to you on any given trip but I never see any major threads about 'all those evil motor-louts running red lights or overtaking dangerously etc. Why single out cyclists? Is it some sort of inferiority complex because bikes are a faster and cheaper means of transport around town?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 20:58 
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Oooooops :oops: :oops: only 2/9, mind you it's long time since I rode a bike.
Perhaps I was thinking from the motorists point of view, using my position to let motorists realise what my intentions are.


As for these stupid little islands that pop up all over the place, recently, they installed on on the outskirts of a village called Burn in E Yorks, just south of Selby.
Now they have had to do quite major roadside repairs, because the edge of the road was not constructed to resist the abuse that heavy trucks would give it.
I often bring 42ton trucks down this road from Selby to the M62 heading for the M18, and before they started to repair the roadedge, I was slowing down to about 15mph for fear of rolling the truck, very tall load of reels of paper each weighing in the region of 2tons, so potentially very top heavy, and not that securable either. Definately not my favourite load.

There is very definately a lack of joined up thinking going on in the road planning departments.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 23:54 
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johnsher wrote:
... I never see any major threads about 'all those evil motor-louts running red lights or overtaking dangerously etc. Why single out cyclists?

Cyclists aren't being singled out at all, but since this thread started off about a cycling knowledge test it's not surprising that they're coming up in conversation and maybe making it look that way. But there have been plenty of threads slating bad driving since these forums opened as well, probably more than relate to bad cycling. Perhaps not much current at the moment, but if one started tomorrow I'm sure there'd be discussion on it.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 07:08 
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Gatsobait wrote:
But there have been plenty of threads slating bad driving since these forums opened as well, probably more than relate to bad cycling.

so you say but due to SOME bad motorists are ALL motorists described as 'motor louts' who should all be run off the road in revenge attacks daveyboy style?

In case anyone cares I've done a quick search and found some figures from 1994 for cycling accidents involving another party:
cyclists killed 172, seriously injured 3828

Pedestrians killed by cyclists 0, seriously injured (doesn't state who was at fault) 14.

Please think about that next time you think it's ok to run a cyclist off the road.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 08:32 
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johnsher wrote:
so you say but due to SOME bad motorists are ALL motorists described as 'motor louts' who should all be run off the road in revenge attacks daveyboy style?

<snip>

Please think about that next time you think it's ok to run a cyclist off the road.

Ease up mate. I didn't even comment on daveyboy's post, and I most certainly did not say anything that should have given the impression that I think its ok to run cyclists off the road. I was responding only to the point that bad cyclists (as opposed to good ones) are being unfairly singled out while bad motorists are not. That point and nothing else. Just to be absolutely clear, I don't think it's okay to run anybody off the road and never have.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:24 
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Gatsobait wrote:
Ease up mate...

sorry, was speaking generally not meaning to infer that you or anyone else with an ounce of common sense would behave in such a poor fashion.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 13:21 
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I see the "more bad drivers" than bad cyclists card has been laid. Well, fair comment, although from my experience from what I see, yes, there are more bad drivers than bad cyclists, but this is only because there are more drivers period! Percentage-wise, the behaviour of the average cyclist against the average motorist is quite frankly abismal. Ok, I haven't done a detailed analysis, I can only go from memory and a rough estimate, but its gotta be close to the truth. Like I said before, you compare this to the average horse rider or farm vehicle you meet on the road, far more law abiding, safe, courteous etc etc so I return the favour. Perhaps any cyclists who are upset or offended by the way this makes me behave ought to get onto cyclist forums and urge a change in their behaviour. Also, any Police reading ought to excersize the law a bit better when it comes to cyclist behaviour, then motorists like myself and others won't resent cyclists so much.

Oh and just to make it 100% clear. I DO NOT THINK ITS OK TO RUN A CYCLIST (or anyone else) OFF THE ROAD.

Oh, and I'm not jealous of cyclists being quicker around town etc etc, I actually think an adult on a bicycle quite frankly looks ridiculous. You arrive where you want to be sweating like a pig and looking silly. Each to their own I suppose, there are also plenty of cars that I think "why?"

I think Paul and PeterE have got the right idea, and I'd love to say honestly that I drive like this all the time, co-operation is the way to go, but like Capri2.8 says, its a two-way thing. :)

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