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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 13:20 
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http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/industry_news#6

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Sainsbury’s Bank reports that the cost of running a car has doubled in the last ten years, with insurance, services, tax and fines contributing to an average yearly spend of £2,053 per car.


No doubt T2000 will have their own fugures to say it has halfed in real terms.... :loco:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 13:32 
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I saw this in the Mail this morning.

The main cost is petrol which the government can do something about, ok they can't reduce the cost of a barrel of oil, but they can reduce the duty seen as they make loads of extra VAT every time the price of oil rises.

As for depreciation, its annoying for the masses, but on the plus side, some of us can buy cars that we wouldn't have been able to afford a few years ago, no way would I have been able to buy a 10 year old turbocharged sports coupe for £2k 5 years ago!!! I blame the surge in everyone buying new cars. I don't see the point personally, new car, wow, spend the same money on something a few years old that is higher spec, nicer to drive and will depreciate less.

Insurance is another thing that needs to be addressed. Many factors have contributed to increased premiums and all need to be addressed. Uninsured drivers, perhaps making the penalties for no insurance much higher than the price of an insurance premium, that would be a start, then the compensation culture, this needs to be addressed too, and finally better driver training which would mean less crashes which would mean cheaper insurance for all. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 13:40 
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daveyboy wrote:
I don't see the point personally, new car, wow, spend the same money on something a few years old that is higher spec, nicer to drive and will depreciate less.


Depends how good you are at negotiating :wink:

I have a company car, my wife drives her own. She has had 2 cars from new now. We own them for 3 years then trade in. Both were 30-40% off list and not pre-reg so depreciation was not a problem. The up side is that you don’t have MOT worries, you get exactly the car you want and you have a full factory warranty for the full time you own it. You may even get insurance thrown in. You also get a very good finance deal.

She has never had to buy tyres, exhausts, brakes or anything else. Just puts petrol in it and drives.

We have done it both ways but on balance I would prefer to buy new every time. So long as you never pay list price.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 13:43 
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If your negotiation is that good, imagine the spec of car you could have if you bought at 3 years old at a dealership. ;)

I'd only buy brand new if I had £30k or more to spend, but even if I had that much to spend on a brand new car, I'd probably buy something a few years old. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 14:02 
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daveyboy wrote:
If your negotiation is that good, imagine the spec of car you could have if you bought at 3 years old at a dealership. ;)


About the same price. Depreciation is about 40% off list in the first 3 years for low mileage. Depending on what you buy. I am assuming you are not refering to 100,000 mile rep hacks

And you don't get all the benefits.

Some people have the mindset that used is cheaper...its not always the case. Same applies to grey imports. I have never failed to get a full UK spec car price from a main dealer that matches any dodgy import.

But if thats your thing, fine. We need people like you to help keep residuals up

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 16:55 
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Running an older car is cheaper if you service your own cars and you buy specialist cars that don't really depreciate. For example I've lost £300 in 18 months on my 200SX, Clare has lost absolutely nothing on her Eunos Roadster (basically an early import MX5) in 9 months, my Dad has gained on his Trans-Am in 5 years, my Dad has gained on his Chevy Truck the moment it landed on UK soil etc etc. The only car in my family to suffer from depreciation is the newest car...... the Vauxhall Omega Elite 2.6 V6, but then we don't care about the depreciation as its my Mum's company car so it's BT's problem, not hers. :)

I wouldn't have it any other way, I find most new cars boring anyway, I'm driving a Mundane Disease-al (Mondeo Diesel) as a courtesay car this week as mine is going in for some bodywork repairs after mine was hit and run. You know what? its one of the most hideously boring cars I've ever driven, no character, no fun, horrible noise and in my opinion, I think it would be a waste of money even if you could get a brand new one for £5k.

Still, all this new car/old car stuff is about choice, the high price of fuel and insurance is not our choice and that is main 2 reasons why motoring is double the cost of 10 years ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 18:24 
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To keep things cheap I'd go one of three ways:

1) Buy very nearly new or pre-registered
2) Buy a classic.
3) Buy very old

Number 1 has the benefits Gizmo reffered too, in that its covered by warrently and so the you only pay for petrol, insurance and tax(but then you have to for any car) servicing, plus maybe pads/discs and tyres depending on usage. Still probably the most expensive of the 3 options but the only practical option if you car is an essential business tool. Buying nearly new will get you a chunk off list price but the car will still be fresh and unmolested.

2) Is great if your not dependant on it and enjoy something a bit different. While many will be very reliable they aren't ideal for everyday use, paricularly in the winter months. Snow makes for an interesting drive home for me! Your unlikely to suffer from depriciation and servicing is often cheap, especially if you can do it yourself.

3) "Bangernomics" as I think DIY dubbed it. Probably the cheapest of all 3. Find a good solid car for less then £300 and that's all you can lose in depriciation! If it lasts 6 months it's probably been financially a good move. However, I've know some cars go on for 2 years and longer. If it seems reliable then servicing is cheap again, cheaper still doing it yourself. If it breaks and its a cheap fix its worth it, if its terminal just throw it away.

Personally the 2 catogaries to avoid unless your prepared to pay the extra is a brand new car and those in between new and "bangers". Obviously buying new will cost you in depriciation, but the problem with those 'in the middle' is that they still depriciate(albeit slower) but can often suffer the same problems as bangers. To be fair, todays bangers are pretty decent.

Overall I'd say so long as you do your homework, used is cheaper, but isn't without it's pitfalls. In the past 12 months however the only money I've spent over and above the essentials is:

1 x Major Service (£35 parts only)
1 x Battery (£20)
1 x N/S Exhaust Middle Box (£55 inc fitting)
1 x MOT (£75 inc test fee)

Total = £185

Not bad for a 24 year old used car!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 18:26 
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I used to own old bangers up to about 4 years ago. Our last nail was a G reg Escort. Owed us nothing. But I design and build race cars for a hobby. Done about everything there is to do on a car (including a chevy powered dragster). Can't be bothered any more servicing/fixing old road cars. I have a race car under construction the moment to compete in the kit car championship.

Its all about what you want to drive.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 18:12 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Anyone seen the banking ad with the catchphrase "for new customers only" - seems like one or more of the major brokers are on this game too.
Insurance renewal due next month. Looked at charges for broker - £25 to send out duplicate cert of insurance - £15 to change car details - and now - if i get an online quote i get 7-10 % discount - oh but only if i am "new customer".
Tried to haggle , thought the thought of losing some business might work , but no.
Had to haggle last year - found quote on net from them £70 cheaper and got it.
Still looking for the company to save me up to £200 on my insurance - think i'll let them give me the plicy and not ask for the change from them


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 18:58 
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It's amazing how many of the "We will reduce your insurance quote by £xxx" suppliers totally fail when I ask. Here I am: responsible, middle aged family man with no accidents since 1988 (and that was being rear-ended when a motorway stopped), last points collected over 5 years ago, and I just happen to drive an interesting enthusiasts car (Group 19) that is virtually theft proof due to triple Cat 1 Immobilisers and Alarms.

Somehow their "cheaper" quote normally comes out over a thousand pounds more expensive. One even wanted £3500! I would complain to the ASA, but expect that it is all covered in the small print.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 19:56 
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Rewolf wrote:
I would complain to the ASA, but expect that it is all covered in the small print.

indeed it is. They don't say 'we will reduce' they say 'you COULD save up to £xxx'. Which just means that they're in league with all the other insurance companies. Company 1 prices car X at say £200 too much, and car Y at the right price. Company 2 returns the favour and prices car Y at £200 too much and car X at the right price. Therefore both of them can now claim they you could save up to £200.

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One even wanted £3500

a friend of mine was working for an insurance company and I asked him why they do things like this. The answer was actually quite simple - "they don't want your business".


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 20:51 
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Rewolf wrote:
It's amazing how many of the "We will reduce your insurance quote by £xxx" suppliers totally fail when I ask. Here I am: responsible, middle aged family man with no accidents since 1988 (and that was being rear-ended when a motorway stopped), last points collected over 5 years ago, and I just happen to drive an interesting enthusiasts car (Group 19) that is virtually theft proof due to triple Cat 1 Immobilisers and Alarms.

Somehow their "cheaper" quote normally comes out over a thousand pounds more expensive. One even wanted £3500! I would complain to the ASA, but expect that it is all covered in the small print.


I'd rather insure you, a road safety enthusiast with a quick car (which therefore will have better brakes, better suspension and probably better tyres) than someone 70 year old in a group 2 or 3 Metro worth £100.

Insurance companies, can't work them out. I drive a group 16/17 car (Nissan 200SX) and its tuned, approx 230bhp from 170bhp standard car with all mods declared. I'm 25 too, so guess how much fun I have insuring one? :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 22:38 
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Capri2.8i wrote:
3) "Bangernomics" as I think DIY dubbed it. Probably the cheapest of all 3. Find a good solid car for less then £300 and that's all you can lose in depriciation! If it lasts 6 months it's probably been financially a good move. However, I've know some cars go on for 2 years and longer.


"Bangernomics" certainly has worked for this family for the last 3 years mate.
In May 2002 I picked up an M reg Citroen Xantia 1.9 Diesel with 250,000 miles on the clock for £400. Sure it had a few "battle scratches & dents" on it, but it was still road legal & perfectly functional.
Insurance was a mere £223 per annum, and an engine service (every 10,000 miles) was £22.50 inc VAT. When we first got it fuel was costing me 34p per litre, and this rose to an outrageous 42p per litre by the time we had got rid of it.
The only part I had to buy for it in the 3 years we had it was a clutch cable which cost £30.
I sold it 3 weeks ago for £100, which means that 3 years of motoring cost me £487 overall (not including insurance, fuel, or servicing).

The new car that replaced it is a 2000 (V) reg Mondeo 2 litre Zetec.
It is fully loaded with electric everything, and I absolutely love the traction control feature which lets you take little "liberties" every now & again :)
Dealer retail on one of those is £3200, I paid £1200 for it which included £700's worth of ICE (it was cheap because I got it from my brother).
It has a couple of "pinprick" dents in the NSF wing, and one scuffed alloy on the NSF. Even with this minor damage, I reckon I can drive it for a year and still claw back £1800 without a problem at the end of it.

daveyboy wrote:
Running an older car is cheaper if you service your own cars and you buy specialist cars that don't really depreciate. For example I've lost £300 in 18 months on my 200SX,

Don't wish to burst your bubble davey, but a 200SX doesn't qualify as a "specialist" car.
A 51 model costs £24,700 new, and you can pick that same 51 model up now (4 years on) for £4,600 if you shop around (that equates to a £5,000 per year loss).

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:25 
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Bubble not burst at all mate, its relatively specialist compared to your typical hatchback/saloon and that is what I meant. I certainly don't think its specialist to the degree of kit cars/classic cars/vintage cars! :)

Oh, and naughty naughty using Red Diesel. ;)

You mention the later model 200's and there depreciation, you say you can get a 4 year old one for £4k. Trust me, you won't get anything like a good one for that money, besides, even at £4k, its still got a way to come down in price. ;)

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