Safe Speed Forums

I was driving to telford on the A442. It was NSL

I was at the back of group of about 5 closley packed cars which where doing about ~40 mph.

We turn a corner and in front of me is a beutifull long stright, I turn my headlights on, draw back a bit, look for about 2 sec. It's clear. I signal and off I go. Two cars left to over take, still nothing in the distance. I was thinking this is going to be lovely and smooth overtake. Then from my left a van pulls in front of me!!!! . I am doing ~70-75. he's doing 50 I break, beep and flash my lights. I have to wait for him to overtake so I can get passed.

Any adivce, or tips on what to do if this happens agian?

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Not an easy one.

I likely wouldn't have gone for the five, even though it was clearlyu a long enough stretch for you (or me!) to do so, simply because they were bunching. The bunching is indicative of some of them wanting to pasas the leader, and with four in prone position, and three of those four with restricted rearward visibility, the odds of one of them doing it to you is pretty high.

Given that he had come out, and you'd braked adequately to miss his back end, were I then in your position I would almost certainly have pulled into where he came from, waited for him to get back over and only then reassessed my chances of passing the remaining two and possibly him too.

I was once behind two cars doing about 40 in a NSL. As I was overtaking, the second car decided to do the same. So we ended up three abreast.

The moral? Never assume that the driver in front will use his mirrors before pulling out. The solution? I have no idea, other than switching off the brain and staying behind them.

Brian

use your horn... that's what it's there for.

There are a few fundamental solutions to this problem. I made a bit of a study of it myself having had a similar nasty surprise.

1) When undertaking a block overtake (i.e. more than one vehicle), pause, plan, assess and commit to each and every vehicle you overtake individually.

2) Be vigilant to the possibility that a vehicle you are about to overtake also plans to overtake. If he's close following and especially if he's positioned to the right, beware.

3) Never overtake until you know exactly what gap you are going to return into. When you make a committment to overtake you need to know exactly where you will return to the left.

4) Never commit to an unknown future overtake. (As you might as you pass the second in a five car block overtake planned as one but actually comprised of FIVE overtakes.) Each vehicle you pass is a planned move.

5) Manage differential speed to appropriate levels. +15 to +20mph is generally about the right differential speed. It's quick enough to get past in little time, but slow enough that braking is a possibility if your target overtakee misbehaves. If you have 3 or 4 well spaced (and I mean well spaced) vehicles on a wide empty road with good visibility and no reason for turning (junctions, driveways, laybys) you might be able to justify +50mph or +60mph. The big difference in this sort of case is that you know for sure that your target vehicles have no reason to move out of lane.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thanks for your help.

I think this is a product of what is discussed here.

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4638

It was a risky move. The cars were all so close togther, you could not take one at a time, unless you forced your way back in. Which can be a problem.

I hope if/when it does happen again. I will be able to think, rather than panic.

I was shaking afterwards, it was not nice at all.

_________________
Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Planning to force your way back in is out of the question. Forcing your way back in might be a last ditch disaster recovery option.

It might on occasion be justifiable to run a block overtake where the vehicles cannot be separated. I think you would need an extended period of prior observation. The bottom line is that you have to understand the potential risks and be certain that the move is safe.



A valuable lesson learned, at no real cost to anyone. That's road safety in the real world.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

If the road in question has frequent overtaking opportunities, it could be worth sacrificing one such chance to watch and see if anyone makes a move. If it's a long clear straight and no vehicles overtake then it would increase my confidence that they will stay back on the next straight. Obviously this doesn't override the very good advice that Paul has listed, and caution still needs to be exercised. You'll probably find then after you have overtaken some of the other drivers will wake up and overtake as well. Personally I'm always looking for an escape route if it all goes belly up, and as said as a last resort would indicate left and hope a fellow citizen would let me in and not see me obliterated. Thankfully I've never been in that position but it's there as a last ditch manoeuver.

I hope you never get into that situation but sideswiping or pushing someome off the road is likely to have less severe consequences than a head on collision. Better still if you can just put it on the verge or in the ditch. Dont risk hitting a big tree though!

Read my post again........

If your notice I DO NOT say I would push another car off the road and I DO NOT say I would sideswipe another car, and I'm a little bit dissapointed you have twisted my words.

Just for the record, no I have not been in that postition, but just to recap I said I would INDICATE and hope that the motorist would drop back and let me in as a last ditch attempt to save my life. I never overtake in an unsafe place and this situation would only occur if someone else has failed to use their mirrors.

No matter who it was or what their driving was like or even if they have overtook in the most stupid place possible I would ALWAYS create a safe gap for them to get into to avoid them being killed. As I'm sure you would.

Just to make sure there is no confusion this time "mrtd" I DO NOT advocate this action unless it was a LAST DITCH life saving exercise and I would like to think I'd have taken ALL STEPS POSSIBLE to avoid being in this situation at all.

Sorry if you misundestood, I wasn't meaning to suggest that you go around sideswiping other cars, and indicating and hoping someone takes pity on you would be a sensible thing to do.

Like you I prefer not to get into that situation, and haven't been there either. I would like to think I would avoid ever getting into that siruation. But it doesn't hurt to think about what you would do if it ever did happen. I was simply observing that if I was forced to involve another innocent motorist in this problem of my own making, a sideswipe would probably do less damage than a head on. So given a choice between the two, I would go for the sideswipe. And after all, the person you sideswipe is probably marginally more to blame, for refusing to let you in, than the other driver you would involve in the head on.

Sorry if I overreacted a little there, at least we've cleared things up.