Safe Speed Forums

This in the Telegraph this morning.

I've been wondering when this would happen, and I'm not far from leaving the UK. This news has just brought leaving the UK that little bit closer.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Picture this.......

You drive down the road without a seatbelt (i'm sure we have all done it more than once in our lives), and ordinarily, you would simply get a gesture from a police officer (if you were actually seen) of an indication to put your belt on, or you may even get stopped and a friendly word would be had before you were on your way again.


Now, you get arrested, taken down the station, photo, prints & DNA taken, given a court date, and (after around 4 hours or so) you get released.
You then go to court, get the obligatory £30 fine with £40 costs thrown in for good measure (which in reality doesn't even cover an hour of the time it has taken to process you).

If you are feeling particularly difficult, then you can make the process cost even more by requesting to see a GP upon your arrival at the station, you can also throw an accusation or two in of having your human rights breached (and if you word the accusation correctly, a black mark goes against the arresting officers name), you can also request a solicitor......in fact, the list is almost endless.

So to sum it up.....

A pissy offence that isn't worth the trouble of reporting now ends up costing £1000's of the hard earned taxpayers money.

What a great idea

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Judge Dredd anyone?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

time to just sign on the dole and stay at home where it will be the only safe place left (for now)

As a bit of a balance, there are new arrest procedures too - previously an officer's reasons could be vauge ("ways and means act") but now it all has to be down on paper which does make things a bit more

I can't remember the precise reasons but I think it was so the new fixed penalty notices could be enforced better. Those are stupid too - I saw a TV news report following trading standards around testing shops selling to under 18's - they were issuing flipping £80 fines to people who sold alcohol! Previously they would have gone to court and got a bigger fine and the license holder would have something to think about, now it's "oh damn, better be more careful to spot the bait kids now"

Gareth

Yes, the main reason being that todays plod simply doesn't have the intelligence to differentiate between who they should and shouldn't be arresting, these new powers simply mean that plod has less thinking to do, and less comeback when he gets it wrong.

The only person displaying any form of ignorance is you! This legislation has made the job ten times more difficult. The arrest parameters have been narrowed so much the arrest figures have fallen dramatically and it's only been a week.

I think you need to do some more research......but then again, maybe that's too big a word for you.

edited

I'm very interested in your point of view on this.

Would I be right in guessing that you are a Police Officer? If you are, let me know and I'll give you your forum 'badge'.

On a point of rules and fair play we try really hard here to attack the argument rather than the individual. This is in order to try and maintain a high level of intelligent debate and a fair attempt to rule out slanging matches.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thanks for the Welcome and yes, I am in the job. Traffic Officer for the last eight years.
Sorry about the post. I don't normally indulge in slanging matches, but the prvious post was so wide of the mark, I got a little annoyed. Apologies.

There was a bit on the news today, regarding police abusing powers to persecute "innocent" people.
In Cumbria, my experience is the villains have the upper hand because of our rural locale, AND the fact the police are tied up in knots with various bits of legislation.

The result is they [the police] occasionally resort to using legislation/procedures to hinder known offenders which are NOT intended for that use.
I have no reason not to suspect this goes on all over the country.

Unfortunately one or two instances of abuse of powers are held up (rightly in some circumstances ) to show that police cannot be trusted to use these powers wisely - and this is usually done by a press, who are some of the biggest abusers of priviledge and violators of privacy going!!
As a citizen however, I hope that our police are armed with whatever powers they need to protect me, my family and property - sadly it often seems that is not the case, yet we have stories like this circulating.

Whatever powers police have, it is essential that they use them wisely, and do not give the public cause for concern. I am sure undue pressure is put on some for political reasons, and the only thing which would stamp that out is for whistle-blowers to reveal instances, and not be worried for their jobs!
I admire QL for coming to this site, and giving us the benefit of yet another viewpoint.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Don't worry about it. Tell us more about the new rules that are making your life harder.

Any other BiB having problems?

Anyone want to feed me information in absolute confidence that needs to go to the press? psmith@safespeed.org.uk

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

quietlife. Is that username wishful thinking, given that you're trafpol?

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Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

The new legislation requires an Officer to provide a specific reason as to why it was necessary to arrest. There are only ten to chose from and they are very restrictive. We are already having offenders turned away from custody due to their rigid interpretation.

If an offender is bailed by the Police and then fails to turn up when required, the power to arrest has now been removed. If there is no reason to re-arrest under the ten 'rules', then forget it.

It's one of the bigget cases of hamfisted legislation ever brought in by this disgrace of a Government.

As to a 'quiet life'. I wish!

[quote="Ernest Marsh"]There was a bit on the news today, regarding police abusing powers to persecute "innocent" people.
In Cumbria, my experience is the villains have the upper hand because of our rural locale, AND the fact the police are tied up in knots with various bits of legislation.

quote]

Not just Cumbria -- probably mentioned this before - but here goes - area i live in has for years had an image as "street from hell" --you name it - it went on .
Remand -- not known.Bail the all curing answer.Young obnoxious bovine ( no you can't call them yobs, so the CBO Sgt says)- y.o.b breaks in ,caught in act - bailed and back on street before PC finished paperwork, and tea and donuts .

Residents ask high chief magistrate why - get letter written in three tongues .
Strange that next time y.o.b. caught he get temporary accommodation courtesy of HMP till his trial.
QL- with this lot of legislation you have my sympathies.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

edited

[quote="johno1066


All I will say, most on this forum support the Police, that's not to say we don't agree with some of them all the time, for many, the issues are with senior Officers, many of whom appearing to live on planet Zanussi. For those who complain about the Police now, wait till you get some jumped up little squirt with only 4 weeks training behind them, trying to issue you with a FPN or arrest you in dubious circumstances, only then to watch those committing serious offences being let off by a brief paid for out of your taxes.[/quote]



johno1066

" those committing serious offences being let off by a brief paid for out of your taxes - "been happening for years - see my bit about persistant offenders in my last post -and the bit about magistrates

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The new powers of arrest provided by SOCPA have been seen by most officers as likely to reduce the number of officers arrested. Time will tell. We have always had general powers of arrest if certain conditions apply. Now any one of these conditions or one of two others have to apply for us to arrest.

Previously for a simple arrestable offence, it was a no brainer whether to arrest or not. Now we have to consider the criteria for arrest. The most common one will be "to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question", but there are several others. We have to justify the arrest citing one of the reasons for arrest. So for many previously arrestable offences which could reasonably be investigated without arrest, ie by appointment to attend for interview, this is the way it will now be done.

I can't see that we have any more powers to arrest, in fact less as we have to ask ourselves in each case, whether arrest is appropriate.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian