Safe Speed Forums

I wonder if anyone could offer me any advice on this situation.

I have an unpaid tax bill going back to 2002/2003 which the tax man is now pestering for. It relates to a P11d company car benefit from a previous employer.

Now the reason i'm not paying it is I never had a company car in that period. I've written numerous letters to my local tax office about it, so has my accountant and all they will say is I need to take it up with the previous employer as its them who issued the P11d in the first place.

I have contacted employer who say as far as we can tell you did have car so we're going to do absolutely nothing about it. Tough!

Accountant says he hasn't come accross this before as normally P11d copies are issued to employees before they are sent to inland revenue and you're supposed to dispute it there and then, this didn't happen with me though, all I ever recieved was P60's then finally P45 upon redundancy. Accountant says he doesn't think theres much I can do about it, personally I think he just cant be bothered with it for £800, I am bothered about it though both for the £800 and out of principle.

The previous employer is a vehicle finance company, what makes me laugh is during that time I had two personal vehicles on HP with them ! Why would I do that if I had access to a company car?

So i'm at a loss what to do, accountant cant/wont help, inland revenue cant/wont help, employer cant/wont help.

I was considering paying the tax then going to small claims against employer, but have no real evidence either way. Its my word against theirs.

As the P11D was filled in by your employer I would say you need to take up the issue with them. Just a question did you leave on bad terms with your last employer? I ask this because I find it difficult to believe they will not issue you with another P11D saying you did not have a car.

I would chase the employer and ask them to show you proof that you had a company car. I don’t suspect the tax would want to know because it’s your employer’s word against yours. I know it’s a pain but I wouldn’t give up. If you don’t get any joy from the employer I would write to the Citizens Advice Bureau for help.

If you read the P11D at the top (Notes to the employee) it says your employer has filled in this form.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Bit tricky really - it's the sort of thing that you might do and then find out that it's too late.

How about trying another accountant? The quality does vary, my boss changed recently and they advised him about a whole load more costs that he could claim for.

At the end of the day, as you say they MUST have records if you had a company car, and if they can't prove it then I would have thought you were ok. I guess the problem is getting them to do some work to rectify the problem, perhaps a different accountant could know the specific wording to remind them of their responsibilities, whatever they.

Gareth

Why not write to the former employer and warn them that you will hold them responsible for any losses that you suffer? That might wake them up.

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Paul Smith
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I've already had similar exchanges with HR manager there and then finally the boss (CEO), this is the last mail I got from him, it appears to be a brick wall



Problem is he knows as well as I do that the Inland Revenue will not adjudicate.

If your ex employer is saying you had a company car, the tax man will only be interested in getting his money. You need to make a discussion on whether you want to fight your ex employer. Maybe have a word with a solicitor, some will give you free time to discuss your problem.

Can’t understand you’re Ex employer, maybe they have claimed for you having a company car and don’t want the taxman to know about it.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Presumably HAD you been driving a company car, you would have had to be insured for it.
Was the company the usual buyer of insurances, or was it left to employees?
If it WAS left to employees, then the company should have required proof you had insured it. Do they have this?

Who would have been the registered keeper of said vehicle?


I would refuse to pay the taxman, and use the doubt implied in the above - i.e. they would appear not to have any proper records to refer to - to bolster your case, along with the possesion of two cars (on finance) of your own. "The P11d was obviously issued by the company in error - they are unable to back it up with ANY other paperwork."
You are supposedly innocent until proven guilty - the revenue MUST be able to prove you are liable for the money.

Do you have service receipts for your own cars? It might help to show they were in use at the time. Did you travel abroad in either of them, or anywhere that your vehicle might have been recorded. Most Hotels record registration numbers, AND have to keep the registration cards for more than the time elapsed so far!

Finally, in a dispute with the Inland Revenue, there is a recourse to an Independant Revue panel. Not sure how you get to go on it - I made a real nuisance of myself with the IR, and recorded ALL contact with them, showing how they were not taking ANY measures to resolve the issues I had. They then moved the case to the tribunal, where they got steamrollered by a panel who displayed remarkable common sense, and gave them a dressing down for their behaviour.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Try and get the information using the FoI Act. They can't reasonably refuse you of you phrase the letter appropriately.

If you didn't have a company car why can't you simply write to the IR

State that you never had a company car.

State thay they must be in receipt of incorrect information.

State that you can produce witnesses that will testify to that fact.

If they are daft enough to take you to court then produce your evidence and claim cost when you win.

Civil Engineer is right. If you really didn’t have the car, then you should write a polite letter to your tax inspector, asking to meet him or her. Ask to have the matter put on hold (i.e. cool it) until they have heard your case.

In the mean time, explain that the records the company made at the time were erroneous, possibly due to a book keeping error. Send the company a ‘put up or shut up’ letter, carbon copying your tax inspector person on each exchange. If they send false documents showing the insurance arrangements, car plate, model, maker and other paper work on the car that you are supposed to have had, and you have not had that car, you can have them up for sure. Perhaps they won’t risk that, and their ‘put up or shut up’ letter might result in a feeble admission that they have no paperwork linking you to the bogus car. Or even a guilty silence might be the result.

If they do identify a make, model and plate, have your neighbours verify that no such car was ever yours. Also, try and find other ex-employees who are willing to back your version. Take the evidence of your other, personal cars (DVLA log book slips, insurance payment details from your cards, old tax discs or MOT certificates etc.) to your meeting with your tax inspector.

You never know – if you try everything and remain polite with the tax guy, you might pull if off. If, after every appeal have been made and you are stuck, give up. It’s only £800. Finally, whatever happens, find out where the boss lives and take your dog for a shit outside his door now and again. You can string revenge out for years like that.

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For the second time this week (gulp) I find myself agreeing with Basingwerk. I can't add anything to that other than to note that if you don't have a dog you should buy one. It'll be worth it...

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