Safe Speed Forums

Hey, just wanted a bit of advice... Not just about roundabouts, but driving in general...

I'm a new driver, only been driving alone for about 6 months, so I'm incredibly inexperienced... I know that... I was coming up to a roundabout which has three lanes on the approach and it's a spiral when you get onto it...

Lane 1 is for turning left, lane 2 is for straight ahead, lane 3 is for turning right, no real surprise there... Lane 1 is ONLY for left turns, this is clearly marked... Sitting in lane 2, intending to go for the 2nd exit, which is straight ahead... There's a caravan sitting in lane 1, I sort of assumed he wasn't going to turn left, as there are no caravan sites down that road, and I had been behind him for about 20 miles... Funnily enough, he goes straight forward... I had by this stage begun to move off, and I flashed my lights at him, was just lucky I kinda guessed he wasn't in the right lane, or we would have tried to share the same piece of tarmac...

Bit I was a bit confused about was, my mum was in the car with me, and she shouted at me for flashing the lights, telling me to have manners... Personally I thought flashing the lights once was maybe okay, as he had done something quite wrong, and if I hadn't waited, he would have probably squished me... Would 'good manners' come into this or not? Was I incredibly rude to him for flashing? When I say flashed the lights, it was just that, one flash, very short...

I understand maybe he hasn't driven around this roundabout before or something, but surely in that case he should have been even more cautious about the lanes...

Mum's arguement was 'you're a new driver, he's been driving for a lot longer than you, so you shouldn't pick holes in his driving,' but in my opinion... It was a 'close one' and he seemed completely oblivious to the fact...

Mike

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Mike

Firstly, well done for using a bit of local knowledge and anticipating the hazard.

A few things spring to mind. Vehicles of this length tend to need much more width to negotiate things like roundabouts as their articulated back part "cuts the corner". On tighter radii (ie nearer the crown of the roundabout) they need even more width. If the towing driver had selected L2, it is possible that he would have "clipped" lane 3 - which may have been busy?

Maybe the driver realised he had a tail and was using it as an opportunity to let a few by?

As for the lights... risky in that a "flash" (as opposed to a "hold full beam for several seconds") is often interpreted as a "I'm letting you go". Combine that with the fact that the hazard-creating vehicle was towing makes it less easy for him to see you. A honk on the horn would be likely more effective at making him anchor up - if that was what you wanted.

If your flash was a means of "education" after having dealt with the event.. then that and/or a hoot was probably not only a waste, but MIGHT have provoked unwanted retaliation (though admitedly unlikely in this instance1) I tend not to do that at all.

I asked mum afterwards would I have been better using the horn and she said, 'No you shouldn't question his driving, he has more experience than you.'

Oh well... I'd already encountered about 5 muppets during this particular journey... Mostly on roundabouts or on approaches to roundabouts...

Firstly a lorry decided to go right round a roundabout in lane 1... Taking into consideration your note about large vehicles needing a bit more space... I sort of understand why he did this, but still it wouldn't have hurt him to move to lane 2 as this was a fairly big roundabout, plenty of room...

The next was a boy racer that decided he wanted to undertake me, on the approach to the roundabout, he was in lane 2 behind me, moved to lane one, undertook me, moved back to lane 2, sped on ahead of some other cars on the improved grip road surface stuff, about 50 yards from the roundabout, managed to pull back into lane 1 after this queue of traffic... Next I encountered a car doing about 30, just as I came off the last roundabout... So that called for some brisk braking on a bend (bad)... No more incidents until the end of a dual carriageway, when the caravan I had the trouble with a bit later overtook on the 'merge in turn' sign... I braked to let him by, as I know I'm limited to 45 and didn't want him to get stuck behind me...

Again no more real incidents until the next roundabout, I was going straight, a bus pulled out right infront of me... Eeek, he was turning right from what was exit 1 for me... Hadn't really anticipated this one, but I managed to slow down enough to let him out... Good driving by a bus driver... Not... And then the caravan a bit further on...

Mum did compliment me on my driving overall, just not the final roundabout incident...

Anyway, thanks for the advice... I wasn't particulary angry or anything with the driver, I guess it was just me trying to 'educate' him a bit, but I'm always particulary wary about any vehicles on spiral roundabouts with multiple lanes...

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Mike

I would judge that as "administering a mild rebuke" and nothing to be ashamed of!
Holding onto full beam is more agressive - and unfortunately all to easy to do accidentally if driving on dipped beam first in Peugeot 307s - the lamp on the dash is not easy to see, and the light stalk has no positive click when switching from one to the other.
Last week I flashed a car in lane 1 who was in danger of getting himself baulked behind a slow moving van. Unfortunately, my flick went too far, and left the main beams on for two or three seconds before I realised - so he put his arm out and gave me the finger
It's a shame there isn't a hand signal for "Sorry about that old chap" in the Highway Code!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

you're perfectly right to be questioning the driving of others - and more importantly yourself, otherwise you're never going to learn anything. Venting your displeasure is a whole different argument.

Holding on to main beam is not aggressive. In truckers parlance it means 'I am here, have you seen me?' The short one or two flashes means 'You go ahead'. Lots of flashes, at least four, mean 'Look out, trouble ahead!' either police, accident or something to slow for.

And that's the trouble with computers; you can't give a 'quick flash' or a short 'pip-pip' on the horn. If you just 'dib' it, it won't sound.

Don't confuse the number of years that someone has spent behind the wheel with experience. Just because someone has been driving longer than you doesn't necessarily mean they are a better driver. My mum has been driving for 30 years and I recon I already drive better than she does.

Something you do need to take on board though, and it seems to an extent that you already have from what's already been said - vehicles that are towing (whether it be a car and caravan or an artic) may take up road positions that you're not expecting in order to negociate a corner without hitting the curb. In general a good rule of thumb, and one that I stick to like glue, is never go 'two up' (ie side by side) around any corner, roundabout or other obstruction with any vehicle that's towing or is fairly long, as long and artictulated vehicles do need more room to negociate tight corners. The other thing to be aware of is that the portion of the vehicle behind the rear axles will swing out away from the corner, so stay well clear - it makes life easier for you and the driver of the other vehicle and it goes some of the way to telling the driver of the other vehicle that oyou're not about to screw them over by getting in the way.

On a similar note, rearward visibility when you're towing something like a caravan is pretty poor. A flash of the head lights is a fairly universal indication of 'you're past me now and can move over' so be very careful when using it. A blast on the horn in your situation is probably more likely to have positive effect.

On the whole - well done for analysing what happened and posting about it. It seems that your instincts are already being honed because you 'had a feeling that something wasn't right'. The best way to learn is by discussing errors with more experienced drivers and analysing for yourself what happened in order to avoid the same situation again. We all make errors from time to time and its not always down to lack of experience.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

and, if possible, this amended version is even better.

Going one stage further still and saying: "don't overtake near hazards" gives a very good general rule, although you also have to define 'overtake' and 'hazard' to make it easy to understand.

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Paul Smith
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