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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 15:59 
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Daily Telegraph

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Motorists move towards road-pricing
(Filed: 01/07/2006)

Public support for road-pricing has increased in the past two years and nearly half of motorists support a road-pricing scheme using telematics technology (ie, the car communicating with cameras, satellites, etc), according to the RAC Report on Motoring 2006.

Drivers are now so fed up with congestion (79 per cent believe it is getting worse) that they are prepared to do a deal with the Government on road-pricing, but only in return for concessions on motoring taxes and improvements in public transport and the road network.

The nuts and bolts of a road-pricing scheme are uncertain. Feasibility studies conducted by the Government suggest that a charge of up to £1.34 a mile on the busiest roads at peak time may be the answer. Two thirds of motorists believe that an annual mileage charge is the most effective method, while 55 per cent think that charges for using town centres are unfair.

The same number of drivers believes that higher charges during rush-hours are unjust, as is a charge for the use of motorways.

Global Positioning Systems (GPS) is likely to underpin any charging system and the RAC's report points out that the advanced technology offered by GPS should be tailored to the advantage of motorists, to sweeten the road-pricing pill.

The examples of driver-friendly, GPS-enabled technology include theft-tracking devices, which 87 per cent of motorists would like to have, rerouting technology to avoid hold-ups and a panic button for emergencies.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 16:46 
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Quote:
Two thirds of motorists believe that an annual mileage charge is the most effective method, while 55 per cent think that charges for using town centres are unfair.

The same number of drivers believes that higher charges during rush-hours are unjust, as is a charge for the use of motorways.


These points completely undermine the underlying principle of the Government's scheme. We already have an "annual mileage charge" - it's called fuel duty.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 17:08 
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Global Positioning Systems (GPS) is likely to underpin any charging system...

Eh? It's unrelialbe* (especially around trees) and owned by the yanks!
How can they even think that?

* Of course it's not completely unreliable, it's good enough for general navigation as long as you expect a few blips here and there, but for road pricing those blips will cost you.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 17:21 
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Ziltro wrote:
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Global Positioning Systems (GPS) is likely to underpin any charging system...

Eh? It's unrelialbe* (especially around trees) and owned by the yanks!
How can they even think that?

* Of course it's not completely unreliable, it's good enough for general navigation as long as you expect a few blips here and there, but for road pricing those blips will cost you.


I think it's going to be another computer cock-up by the government :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 17:56 
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Dixie wrote:
I think it's going to be another computer cock-up by the government :roll:

Nooo never! They'll get it right this time.... :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 18:06 
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I am not normally a conspiracy theorist but I believe that congestion is being deliberately made worse so that motorists will accept a new form of taxation to try and alleviate a problem that should not exist.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 18:24 
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Gizmo wrote:
I am not normally a conspiracy theorist but I believe that congestion is being deliberately made worse so that motorists will accept a new form of taxation to try and alleviate a problem that should not exist.

A bit like these residents parking schemes erected by the councils who caused the on-road parking to become a problem in the first place...
But they might not be doing it deliberately.
But it's making them a lot of money...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 18:56 
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So why are motorists so lame. With all this crap being poured down our throats all the time why do we not just say, "shut the f*ck up and give us decent roads that we have already paid for a dozen times over already...end of"

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 08:54 
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Gizmo wrote:
So why are motorists so lame. With all this crap being poured down our throats all the time why do we not just say, "shut the f*ck up and give us decent roads that we have already paid for a dozen times over already...end of"

Because this is Britain Gizmo and for some strange reason we (well most of us) are quite happy to bite down on the pillow every time.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:38 
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If motorists really want operations to cost a lot more then they will vote for the highly technological road pricing.

If they want their money spent efficiently they will vote for the current system; one that is more failsafe and doesn't involve up to 30 million computers sending signals up to a satellite at once.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:50 
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I have a feeling that another reason why the government wants to introduce road pricing, is because more and more people are driving cars with good fuel economy, so they aren't getting as much in from fuel tax.

At the end of the day it won't happen anytime soon. We're talking about a Labour government IT/technology project.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:56 
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Personally, I'd question the sample size of the of the people in the survey.

You see it all the time in telly ads where "80% of people who tried ACME face cream noticed fewer wrinkles after 3 weeks" blah blah, then you notice that they only had a sample size of 20 people.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:07 
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Call me paranoid but I can't help thinking that there's more to this than simple taxation. This is just another way of Blair and his cronies from monitoring the population.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:15 
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Spy tax? A tax to be spied on...

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:19 
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Ziltro wrote:
Spy tax? A tax to be spied on...


Yeah, that sounds about right.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:34 
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I don't have an ideological opposition to road pricing - why shouldn't those who use more, pay more - fuel duty is not adequate for this. However I have serious reservation about whether this government could implement such a scheme without major problems.

I wouldn't mind if road pricing meant doing an average 10,000 miles cost about £200, and road tax was abolished. However I suspect that that would not be profitable enough and the temptation for continued increases would be too great.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 13:48 
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Capri2.8i wrote:
I don't have an ideological opposition to road pricing - why shouldn't those who use more, pay more - fuel duty is not adequate for this. However I have serious reservation about whether this government could implement such a scheme without major problems.

I wouldn't mind if road pricing meant doing an average 10,000 miles cost about £200, and road tax was abolished. However I suspect that that would not be profitable enough and the temptation for continued increases would be too great.


I'd be bloody amazed if £200 per annum per motorist paid for HALF of the administration cost of the insane scheme.

Have a careful look at this: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 18we58.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 14:20 
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... fuel duty is not adequate for this ...


Please could you expand a bit on why you think it is not adequate. It seems to me that the current system of the RFL plus fuel tax is a pretty good balance and is easy to collect.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 15:01 
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SigmaMotion wrote:
Personally, I'd question the sample size of the of the people in the survey.


Or you could indeed question who was sampled. Did they sample people living in the Scottish Highlands, or in the West Midlands? What sampling technique was used? It makes a hell of a difference. Again, how many people were sampled? Why not give every motorist in the country a chance to vote.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 15:16 
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malcolmw wrote:
Please could you expand a bit on why you think it is not adequate. It seems to me that the current system of the RFL plus fuel tax is a pretty good balance and is easy to collect.


Because you can cut your costs by having a more fuel efficent vehicle, or by going to a LPG car etc.... We are talking about road space here, which is irrelevant to how many mpg's your getting. There would be no difference in congestion whether or not everyone drove a diesel Mondeo or a V8 Mustang.


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