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For pities sake

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Julesm

Post subject: For pities sake

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 18:28

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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 20:17
Posts: 244
Location: Thetford, Norfolk

Link to EDP24

Quote:

Conventional wisdom says mixing cars and pedestrians is a recipe for disaster - but a pilot project in Norfolk is getting ready to do just that.

The developers of a new millennium village in King's Lynn believe they can actually reduce accidents by "integrating" road users into the same space.

Under their plans, pavements will be ditched and pedestrians encouraged to wander freely through the streets among cyclists and cars.

The controversial scheme has already proved a success in Holland but this would be the first time a new estate in the UK has employed it.

Developers plan to use strategic tree planting, benches and different coloured Tarmac to limit car speeds and protect pedestrians.

Norfolk police architectural liaison officer Trevor Nelson said the scheme would help raise awareness between motorists and other road users.

The Home Zone project is part of a package of measures being introduced in the new estate, which will also include design features to cut crime.

PC Nelson said: "It is really all about reducing crime and the fear of crime.

"I am currently working closely with the millennium-village project in King's Lynn. This is a particularly exciting project as it is of a new design using Home Zone principles.

"It is a traffic-calming measure and it also encourages the community itself to interact with each other.

"It will provide many new challenges as the idea is untried in Norfolk, although it has worked elsewhere, but using Secured By Design principles it should create a situation where there will be less crime."

Speeds limits in the Home Zone areas are expected to be about 20mph but the plans have yet to be finalised by West Norfolk Council.

The scheme is likely to mix different shades of yellow and grey Tarmac to help guide drivers.

Home Zone trials elsewhere have shown the lack of clearly defined areas actually concentrates motorists' minds and encourages more careful driving.

Work on the new millennium village project, in south Lynn, began earlier this year.

PC Nelson said police are now consulting with councils across Norfolk to implement a draft protocol for all new housing developments.

It is hoped the document will see developers introduce Secured By Design, a police initiative to help architects and developers design out crime, into all new estates.

Secured By Design Week is from July 10 to 14, with architects, developers and planners encouraged to contact police for free advice.

Phone 0845 4564567 for more information.

Why on earth do peds have to interact with traffic?

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Gizmo

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 20:37

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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 09:16
Posts: 3655

Quote:

The controversial scheme has already proved a success in Holland

So has legalised prostitution, liberal drug laws and euthinasia.

But do we want them over here.

Don't forget. Holland is the only country in Europe that you can legaly kill someone.

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johnsher

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 21:35

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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:04
Posts: 2311

Gizmo wrote:

Holland is the only country in Europe that you can legaly kill someone.

ooh, now here's a debate that could run for a while

So let's get the ball rolling.

Most people have no problem at all in putting a terminally sick animal out of its misery, why shouldn't we be able to make the same decision about ourselves?

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botach

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 22:20

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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK

And if it was you - wouldn't you like to have that power ?? -- i know i would like to have, but only if it did not impact on my wife's right to claim on my insurance.

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Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

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spankthecrumpet

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 00:05

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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 01:59
Posts: 280

Gizmo wrote:

Quote:

The controversial scheme has already proved a success in Holland

So has legalised prostitution, liberal drug laws and euthinasia.

But do we want them over here.

YES!

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PeterE

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 00:10

Friend of Safe Speed

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

Actually the ideas of Hans Monderman to remove signage and street clutter, and make all road users take responsibility for their own safety (in residential areas, obviously, not on trunk roads) are gaining ever-wider currency.

See:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

I think it's a major step forward to eliminating the prescriptive, rules-based attitude to road safety, that has been shown not to work.

Mark McArthur-Christie, one of the leading lights of the ABD, is an enthusiast.

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Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

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Rhythm Thief

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 16:11

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Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 01:59
Posts: 137
Location: Wolverhamptom (exiled Yorkshireman)

Gizmo wrote:

Quote:

The controversial scheme has already proved a success in Holland

So has legalised prostitution, liberal drug laws and euthinasia.

But do we want them over here.

Don't forget. Holland is the only country in Europe that you can legaly kill someone.

I already operate pretty liberal drug laws in my flat :wink:

I don't see why we shouldn't have euthanasia and legalised prostitution.

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SafeSpeed

Post subject: Re: For pities sake

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 17:07

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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed

Julesm wrote:

Why on earth do peds have to interact with traffic?

I do see the wisdom in schemes that give responsibility to individuals.

Think how pedestrians and drivers interact in a large busy supermarket car park. No one tries to own the space. Very few serious crashes take place (if any).

I think we're seeing the very beginnings of a worthwhile movement away from rules and towards responsibility. I don't think we're past the first few faltering steps on quite a long and winding road, but it looks promising to me.

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mpaton2004

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 17:24

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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 21:19
Posts: 1059

I like it, it's definitely the way forward.

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botach

Post subject: Re: For pities sake

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 17:58

Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9268
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK

[quote="SafeSpeed
I do see the wisdom in schemes that give responsibility to individuals.

Think how pedestrians and drivers interact in a large busy supermarket car park. No one tries to own the space. Very few serious crashes take place (if any).

I think we're seeing the very beginnings of a worthwhile movement away from rules and towards responsibility. I don't think we're past the first few faltering steps on quite a long and winding road, but it looks promising to me.[/quote]

Tis high time that all individuals involved take responsibility ( good example is post on passing bye an accident)
On supermarket car parks - is the interaction due to the fact that the pedestrian is pushing ( in most cases) a shopping trolley, which would make a dent in the car, or due to courtesy - ??.I'd like to think its down to courtesy,but ....

Like you , i see the glimmers of some form of positive intersction , perhaps some education to drivers to start educating learners by showing them courtesy and respect might show newer drivers that courtesy and respect makes things a lot easier .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

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BottyBurp

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:10

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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:47
Posts: 1511
Location: West Midlands

Where will the cashcams go?

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BottyBurp

Post subject: Re: For pities sake

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:12

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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:47
Posts: 1511
Location: West Midlands

botach wrote:

Tis high time that all individuals involved take responsibility

Nice idea - doubt it'll catch on, though...

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Sixy_the_red

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:35

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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 08:22
Posts: 2618

I realise that the Dutch have their fair share of problems, but on the whole their attitudes towards drugs and prostitution seem to work. I'd far rather see prostitutes working from local authority regulated brothels where they receive regular health checks and proper protection than wandering the street getting attacked, raped and smacked up.

As for drug law? Banning something doesn't stop people doing it. If drug law was relaxed then maybe we could actually EDUCATE people as to the dangers of certain types of drugs and we would see instances of overdosing actually fall. Don't forget that the Dutch are lenient about the use of cannabis (which is about as dangerous as chocolate) but from what I understand they are still very strict on the use of hard drugs.

Euthanasia already takes place every day in the UK, its just not talked about. Personally I don't see what the problem is if someone actually WANTS to die.

As for the OP? Why the hell not. IMO pedestrians are just as much responsible for their own safety as motorists. Possibly, just possibly a scheme like this might actually show that and encourage a little bit of cooperation.

Only in Norfolk would they build 'millennium village' in 2006 :lol:

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