Safe Speed Forums

Got a question! Just for a change

I drive a Ka... They have 4 seats with seatbelts... Last night I was out with a few friends from school, and there were 5 of us all together... I didn't carry all 5 last night... I asked 1 or 2 of them to walk... We weren't going particulary far, but I didn't want to leave the car to have to go back to it...

From reading the law/PSNI guidance booklet over here, from what I can make out, there's no limit to how many people you can carry, as long as the seatbelts are used, ie if you have 4 people in the back and have 3 seatbelts, all 3 must be used, and as long as the positioning of the passengers doesn't endanger their lives...

Maybe I've really misunderstood it though... It's not something I'd make a habit of anyway, but for going half a mile around town in my opinion it would be okay... But I just would like a better legal idea of how I stand and stuff...

Thanks

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Mike

I remember a discussion about this somewhere a little while ago and the best we could work out was "seat belts must be used where fitted". I don't remember hearing about any kind of limit on the number of passengers at all.

So what you said.

Unless anyone knows different?

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Andrew.

I think that if you were involved in a big accident your insurance company would not pay out as they would regard your car as a four seater car with too many people.

They would pay out to third parties ie: Your pasengers and the other car but not injury claims to yourself or your car

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

I believe the construction and use regs preclude carrying more passenegrs than the vehicle is approved to carry. If the model type approval says four persons, tht's all you're legally allowed to carry - even if you manage to find somewhere safe for a fifth. The days mates piling in the back of a pickup truck are long gone.

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Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

I'm remembering the thread a bit more now. Maybe I should do a search for it... But I do remember checking my V5 and there is a space for "number of seats" which was not filled in, and as I haven't told them the insurance bast... people don't know how many seats I have.

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Andrew.

My V5 is the same, it's blank for number of seats... It's just that one of my mates is... Small, and there was plenty of room in the back for the 3 of them, I just didn't want to carry the 3 because I wasn't sure... Anyway, shall remember that for next time... I remember seeing 4 seats somewhere, but nothing 'official' so maybe I've just counted the seatbelts and thought... Oh...

Thanks guys

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Mike

There is of course this case which illustrates the potential dangers of overloading a car:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfo ... 894898.stm

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I remember at the time that I felt that this was;

a) a very sad case

b) What is the point of a prison sentance??

c) What is the point of a driving ban?? (Even if she ever wanted to drive again anyway!)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I can't think of anywhere in C&U that specifically limits the number of passengers. Am also quite surprised that Ford can sell the car with only 4 belts if it is possible to fit 5 seated occupants in. You might find that the car would be overloaded with 5 people in it anyway. Many modern hatchbacks have very little load carrying capacity over and above the legally required minimum of 75kg per person!

My understanding of the new legislation is that the belts must be worn "if available" - otherwise lots of classic cars would never be able to be used.

I think the seating capacity on the V5 is only filled in for hackney carriages (or minibuses or something like that) but your car is probably new enough to have come with an EC "Certificate of Conformity". That will quote the number of seats.

Ford billed the Capri as being a 5 seater vehicle - but I think they would have to be lightweights!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

That's a shame, I used to love that as a kid, we'd all pile into the back of my step-brother's mate's older brother's pickup and go out for a blat.

Not really that unsafe unless he managed to roll the thing or something equally stupid like someone trying to stand up, and much cheaper than Alton Towers

You can still get 2 mates in the back of a pickup though. Just make sure its a Subaru Brat. They fitted two seats in the flatbed as standard. Not sure if they sold it over here though.

Do the rules state where the people must sit as well as how many you can carry. I ask because I remember as kids, when my stepdad got a Mk2 Astra GTE, the first time we'd had a car with split folding rear seats, we used to make a den in the boot on long journeys. I now realise that this is a stupid thing to do, but I'm wondering if it is/was actually illegal.

At the weekend I met a land rover towing a rib diving boat with 6 people sitting in the rib boat and another towed speed boat with two kids sitting in the boat

You can't do this sort of thing in Hampshire but you "can" in Pembrokeshire.

We also in the 60-70's used to all pile into the boot of the MK1 Cortina to go swimming and scout trips all 24 scouts used to pile into the leaders cars. Now you would need two mini busses, two drivers who can drive with 16 passengers and 24 booster seats.

My paper round was in the posh rural part and we were piled in the back of a mini van with all the papers to pick up our knackered old shop bikes. Then people also rode milk floats.
My Uncle carried his wife as a passenger in his old three wheeler invalid carriage! He refused to give it up when motorbillity came in, because he was terrified of taking a proper car test.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Front Seatbelts became a mandatory firment in 1966. Rears in 1986.

1) If the car war registered after 1986 (D reg) rear seat passengers MUST be strapped in. if there is no seat belt you are breaking the law (its a fixed penalty though)

2) If you car was registered prior to 1986 then you do not legaly need belts and so passengers cannot wear them. If they are fitted (they were an optional extra for many years prior to that) they must be used.

If you cram 5 people into a 4 seat car you will be breaking the law.

Not sure how the law applies to stuffing 20 asylum seakers into the back of a transit van though.

I was in Alabama recently where they had just passed a law making it illegal to carry the kids in the back of a pick-up truck......no joke




A few years back I had a Suzuki ST90 (a smaller version of the Bedford Rascle)

It had an 850CC engine and was converted to be a 7 (yes seven) seater mini bus.

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Speed camera policy Kills

When we were kids, we (my 2 sisters and I) used to have competitions to see who could do the longest headstand on the back seat of our parents' car without falling over on the bends or under braking!

Peh, my Scout leader used to take the whole Scout troop (and equipment) to camp in a reliant 3 wheeler.

"Dangerous Condition". Too late to look it up but basically it relates to 'likely to cause danger to persons carried in or on the vehicle', or something like that.

You're probably thinking of C&U Regulation 100. It's a "catch-all" that (effectively) says that nothing in or on the vehicle shall constitute a danger to occupants or other road users. I love this sort of wishy-washy vague stuff! You can basically do what you like unless you get caught doing something subsequently found to be dangerous - in which case, you can't! Well that's helpful! At least we know where we stand!

It doesn't specifically mention number of passengers vs. number of seats though and I think it would be a hard one to make "stick" in court if the vehicle manufacturer had provided sufficient seating space for 5 occupants but only belts for 4.