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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 23:55 
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Mad Doc say I should post this as sassy fashion conscious woman :lol:

This was the piece which appear in a few papers yesterday. I take the Waily's version - which ist no different from any other as appear to be a general agency piece.

Quote:

A former model may have killed a cyclist because she was wearing stiletto heels while test driving a sports car, a court has heard.

Julie Hunter, 42, lost control of the Alfa Romeo Spyder as she drove around a parked car at 50mph in a 30mph zone.




Clearly not a skilled driver or COAST conscious.

Not clear as to whether this car parked on a bend or on a narrowish road - but even so - this was hardly a safe speed for condition und if I drive past line of parked cars even on a 40 mph road - I usually at lot less speed than lolly say - und on the alert for the muppet who open door or just set off without so much as a mirror glance let alone an indicate or over shoulder :roll: Und for the person who cross road from in-between these cars :roll:


Quote:
The car spun on to the other side of the carriageway and ploughed into fitness instructor Debbie Riches, 21.

Hunter's two-and-a-quarter inch stiletto ankle boots probably contributed to her losing control.


I wear flat ballerina style shoes in car. These are very feminine und go with any outfit. They also sassy "must haves" per the fashion press ;) (I have sassiest pair of winkle pickers which I bought after seeing them in "Vogue" :lol: (Silver leather und actually very cool und tasteful und comfy Comfort come first. :yesyes:

I could not contemplate driving in such shoes. To me as daft as driving clutching a handy in one hand und gear stick in the other :yikes:

But was it the speed of this car or the shoe heel? :scratchchin: The articles I see so far (including the one from "thisistlondon" which spinny post up on the cycling forum) all seem to suggest that the heels caused her to lose control of this car und presumably helped her foot press on the pedal a bit more despite the parked cars.

However, have driven one of these feisty little beasties on one track day: responsive to slightest touch und thus not a car for a right numpty like this one to drive :rolleyes: I think perhaps that only allowing those who take pride und bother und trouble to improve skills should be allowed to purchase these beauties. It would be a good motivating carrot und added bonus would be for insurers to take account of driver skill when calculating the insurance for these toppest performance cars.

We must try to motivate to improve as best we can und we also must prevent those who are adequately safe in normal family cars but not skilled enough to understand und handle these highly responsive precision machines from being able to acquire them so easily. :roll:

I am sure this will not go down too well with some on here .. but some people just do not have the understanding of these machines. This woman ist one of them. I mean - driving in heels that high :banghead:

Quote:
Hunter took the £15,000 car for a test drive in her home town of Colchester in Essex on May 12, 2005, with the owner, Heidi Holohan, sitting in the passenger seat.

She had been driving with 24-year-old Miss Holohan for a few minutes when she tried to whip around the parked car, Chelmsford Crown Court heard.

But the Spyder spun on to the other side of the carriageway, flinging Miss

Riches' bicycle 20ft in the air and pinning her underneath.

She was pronounced dead at the scene after lying trapped for 30 minutes until fire crews lifted the vehicle off with inflatable airbags.

The court heard Miss Riches, also from Colchester, was working at a local swimming pool and had recently qualified as a gym instructor. She was going out with a soldier.

Hunter was taken unconscious to Colchester General Hospital with a fractured skull and internal damage to her ear.

She was not well enough to be interviewed by police until several weeks later. Miss Holohan was uninjured.

A crash investigator confirmed there had been no mechanical faults with the car or bicycle but he added that Hunter's "very high" heels "may have inhibited the defendant's ability to drive".

Prosecutor Simon Spence said: "According to what Miss Holohan was saying, she was driving the car too fast for the road conditions, perhaps to the limitations of the vehicle.

"The Spyder crossed to the other side of the road and collided with a pedal cycle either

ridden or pushed by Debbie Riches. She was trapped under the car and died almost immediately. The bicycle was thrown over a hedge and into a house."


I have never driven a car, ridden a motorbike or a bicycle in either high heels or flip flops. I would think that I would find the heels would get in way of pedals und I do not think I would be able to "feel" that control on those pedals either :roll:

As a COAST led driver .. I also know that I would be bubbling below lolly when passing parked cars und certainly I would be at a speed at which I could stop very safely und neatly on my own side of road within the distance which I see to be clear. More so if driving something I was "just getting to know und make friends with" :roll:

Quote:
The court heard Hunter, who has separated from her long-term partner over the stress of the accident, received fixed penalty fines for speeding in 2003 and 2004.



Ach.. the speed cam fine. :roll:

They say people "learn from these automated fines und mend their ways :roll:

Nein :nono: They may learn a lot more from a policeman explaining why he thought the speed was unsafe .. und certainly the Speed Aware courses would perhaps have been more beneficial to this woman as at least she would have refreshed skills a little, been a lot more COAST/hazard aware perhaps.. und driven in more appropriate footwear und at a more appropriate speed perhaps that day. :roll:


Quote:
She faced up to 14 years in jail for causing death by dangerous driving but received an eightmonth suspended sentence and seven-year driving ban yesterday.

She had pleading guilty in February on the day her trial was due to start.

She had shown remorse for the tragedy and had tried to commit suicide several times since.



ja.. This ist exactly what I can understand. As said in recent thread und one longest time ago.. people who cause such grief also suffer very badly too. She has to live with this burden of guilt for rest of her life just as the bereaved live with the trauma of loss.

Not the same as murderer who plan to kill with malice aforethought und no compassion but only on his gain from such an act.

Whilst you could argue it was criminally negligent to wear daft footwear when in charge of something with wheels (und bicycles no exception :roll:) - wimmin und shoes.. I have to say it with some .. common sense ist almost vacuumed out of head. :roll:

Quote:
Judge Anthony Goldstaub QC told her she was responsible for a "short burst of dangerous activity" - not 'wicked recklessness". "The defendant, for all her errors, didn't mean to do harm," he said.

"She was guilty of fault, not deliberate wickedness - the fault of serious negligence with terrible and disproportionate results."

He added: "Apart from the dangers of speed itself, there was the added peril that the driver was not familiar with this car's particular handling characteristics, or what the bite of its controls were and she wore high heel shoes unsuitable for the operation of the pedals."




A seven year ban.. suspended sentence. I do not think she will ever really want to drive again really. I hope not actually.

I think somehow an appropriate length of disqualification und a suspended prison sentence also take account of the remorse, suicidal tendency, deep guilt which are probably worse than prison. She probably might even have wanted prison as being "institutionalised" can dull this guilt perhaps.

Quote:


Judge Goldstaub also praised the "magnanimity" of Miss Riches' family, saying: "You have not bayed for the defendant's blood, you have behaved with commendable dignity, strength and moderation in the face of terrible grief."


True dignity und love displayed for their daughter und sister und maybe aunty.

To Spindrift who lurk on here :roll:

if you behave as this family have done - with absolute serene dignity which grieve in family privacy - remembering the good things of that short life und not giving any acknowledgement of the hurt you feel - you make the person who caused that feel all the more guilt over it. It ist much more "satisfying" if you like than jumping up und down und screaming for a speed camera or wishing death und destruction und plagues und pestilence on the person who cause the accident. It bring home more just how serious this death was to person concerned und the serenity of that display show up the value more of that snuffed out life within that family.

Later on - you make your peace with that person as it help heal this deep wound. It does not mean you fully forgive for such poor judgement at the time. Those people who caused such stress within my family do know this - but making that peace und accepting their guilt, deep remorse does help each party continue with their lives.

The poster called "Inspired" ist one such person who did not cause accident but was involved in something which led to a fatality. She posted onto this site in most distraught frame of mind. I think we all helped her accept what happen .. come to terms with it und give her some courage to face whatever happen thereafter.

There ist biggest difference between her .. und this woman with the high heels.

There ist even more of a difference between those who are involved in accident through some degree of silliness und those who take car without legality und drive without legality und who drive in a fashion which ist indeed "downright und obscenely criminal"

Und why our courts apply sentences in accordance with the case und facts as presented before them


I know as well as most do that sometimes - about 10% - they get it all very badly wrong .. but thankfully, British Justice still perform correctly the rest of time und I think this one of them even though I think she a truly stupid :censored: woman over those heels und apparent driving style.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 00:23 
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I've known a few ladies over the years who have been habitual heels wearers - even when driving. I saw no sign that the heels caused them a problem. Possibly it's something that you can get used to.

I agree it looks and sounds dodgy, but the Safe Speed work has proved to me time and time again that it isn't safe to assume anything about road safety.

On the other hand losing control at 50mph in an apparently urban-ish situation is something that we can point the finger at as bad driving. But losing control sounds much more like too much speed and too much steering rather than something to do with footwear.

Is the Alfa Romeo Spyder front or rear wheel drive? Can we figure out from the limited description if she lost control due to power oversteer? I don't suppose there's enough power to break traction at 50mph in any gear is there? Or at least not without serious cornering forces to assist...

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 01:29 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
I've known a few ladies over the years who have been habitual heels wearers - even when driving. I saw no sign that the heels caused them a problem. Possibly it's something that you can get used to.



I always found Curtis und Lemon in "Some Like It Hot" extremely funny as they tried to walk in heels und wondered

Quote:

how the hell do dames walk in these?


:lol:

I wear heels when I go out to party .. but not when I drive.

Ja.. you get used to wearing them und balancing on them :lol: when you walk after a while.

But I find I prefer one pair of shoe for driving as heel can get scuffed if caught under pedal.. und you do not want scuffy shoes :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 07:35 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Is the Alfa Romeo Spyder front or rear wheel drive?

if it's a new one it's 4wd with traction control. You'd have to be pretty inept to lose control of that (driving at 50mph in a residential area certainly qualifies) although it does have a decent amount of poke so I can imagine someone who's used to driving a shopping trolley putting their foot down and getting a very rude surprise.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 08:23 
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I'm sure I'm not the only one who drove in platform soles in the mid to late 1970s ;)

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 09:21 
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Other articles on this;

This is London; Friday 25 May 2007;
Were driver's high heels to blame for death crash?
Quote:
A former model may have killed a cyclist because she was wearing stiletto heels while test driving a sports car, a court has heard.

Julie Hunter, 42, lost control of the Alfa Romeo Spyder as she drove around a parked car at 50mph in a 30mph zone.

The car spun on to the other side of the carriageway and ploughed into fitness instructor Debbie Riches, 21.

Hunter's two-and-a-quarter inch stiletto ankle boots probably contributed to her losing control.

Hunter took the £15,000 car for a test drive in her home town of Colchester in Essex on May 12, 2005, with the owner, Heidi Holohan, sitting in the passenger seat.

She had been driving with 24-year-old Miss Holohan for a few minutes when she tried to whip around the parked car, Chelmsford Crown Court heard.

But the Spyder spun on to the other side of the carriageway, flinging Miss

Riches' bicycle 20ft in the air and pinning her underneath.

She was pronounced dead at the scene after lying trapped for 30 minutes until fire crews lifted the vehicle off with inflatable airbags.

The court heard Miss Riches, also from Colchester, was working at a local swimming pool and had recently qualified as a gym instructor. She was going out with a soldier.

Hunter was taken unconscious to Colchester General Hospital with a fractured skull and internal damage to her ear.

She was not well enough to be interviewed by police until several weeks later. Miss Holohan was uninjured.

A crash investigator confirmed there had been no mechanical faults with the car or bicycle but he added that Hunter's "very high" heels "may have inhibited the defendant's ability to drive".

Prosecutor Simon Spence said: "According to what Miss Holohan was saying, she was driving the car too fast for the road conditions, perhaps to the limitations of the vehicle.

"The Spyder crossed to the other side of the road and collided with a pedal cycle either

ridden or pushed by Debbie Riches. She was trapped under the car and died almost immediately. The bicycle was thrown over a hedge and into a house."

The court heard Hunter, who has separated from her long-term partner over the stress of the accident, received fixed penalty fines for speeding in 2003 and 2004.

She faced up to 14 years in jail for causing death by dangerous driving but received an eightmonth suspended sentence and seven-year driving ban yesterday.

She had pleading guilty in February on the day her trial was due to start.

She had shown remorse for the tragedy and had tried to commit suicide several times since.

Judge Anthony Goldstaub QC told her she was responsible for a "short burst of dangerous activity" - not 'wicked recklessness". "The defendant, for all her errors, didn't mean to do harm," he said.

"She was guilty of fault, not deliberate wickedness - the fault of serious negligence with terrible and disproportionate results."

He added: "Apart from the dangers of speed itself, there was the added peril that the driver was not familiar with this car's particular handling characteristics, or what the bite of its controls were and she wore high heel shoes unsuitable for the operation of the pedals."

Judge Goldstaub also praised the "magnanimity" of Miss Riches' family, saying: "You have not bayed for the defendant's blood, you have behaved with commendable dignity, strength and moderation in the face of terrible grief."

The Times; 22 May 2007
Alfa driver’s high heels may have caused death of cyclist


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 09:49 
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It sounds to me like the woman was driving very carelessly, and the shoes probably had little to do with it.

With all due respect to Vrenchen's very comprehensive piece :) on the subject, I think women look nice driving in high heeled shoes, but they do have to be wary of any safety implications. I suppose it's a bit like using mobile phones as well. 8-)

Another think that has often amazed me is how some (usually young) women can run while wearing stiletto heeled shoes - though I do worry about them doing serious damage to feet and ankles.

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 21:58 
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johnsher wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Is the Alfa Romeo Spyder front or rear wheel drive?

if it's a new one it's 4wd with traction control. You'd have to be pretty inept to lose control of that (driving at 50mph in a residential area certainly qualifies) although it does have a decent amount of poke so I can imagine someone who's used to driving a shopping trolley putting their foot down and getting a very rude surprise.


think the cheaper one is FWD, but at £15k, and with mention of the "owner", I'd say it was secondhand, so could be anything from recent to classic...

wasn't there a spate of crashes in japan not so long ago cased by women in those huge platforms?

but some women can be so funny about footware... girl I know complained about leg strain, most likely caused by walking to work in 6" platforms... suggestion she wore something else was given a reaction like I'd just tipped me drink over her head.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 08:27 
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Whenever possible I drive barefoot.










(As a 6'6" male, high heels are a big no-no)


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 09:09 
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I would imagine that the lower the sports car and the lower the bum to the floor, the more high heels might impeede driving.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 17:51 
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on a related note, I had one or two hairy moments in the old vauxhall combo vans when i worked on the leccy board. these "vans" are the front half of a corsa with a box stuck on the back, but the corsa bit has the pedals very close together, while I daresay fine as a little car for little people with little feet, jumping on the brakes in size 11's can (and did) result in flooring the throttle too.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:46 
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WildCat wrote:
wimmin und shoes.. I have to say it with some .. common sense ist almost vacuumed out of head. :roll:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No man would be brave enough to say such a thing

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 11:55 
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Barkstar wrote:
WildCat wrote:
wimmin und shoes.. I have to say it with some .. common sense ist almost vacuumed out of head. :roll:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No man would be brave enough to say such a thing

Barkstar


They broke the mould when they made Wildy :neko: :rotfl:

BUT :hehe:

This young lady can match Imelda's shoe cupboard :boxedin:

But have to say it - she wears "sensible" flats when driving, riding, cycling and walking.

But my own wife is the same :roll:

"Accessories for every outfit - which means new dress=new handbag=new brolly=new shoes of various shapes and heel sizes accordingly"

Wimmin :roll:


As for the woman in this case :roll: Unfamiliar with the road and the car, serious driver error on a bend .. plus daft footwear choice :roll:

Justice is not vengeance - and has to judge according to circumtance and sentence within the statutory guidelines.

Prison would not have really been appropriate in this case - and the prisons are "full" anyway :roll: The length of her disqualification will keep her off the road. She may not ever want to drive again anyway. The guilt level will torment her for life - and this level of guilt and remorse within her would have helped the bereaved act with such serenity and quiet but still grieving dignity.

Sincere condolences to that family and let's hope all involved receive appropriate counselling to get their lives back on track - which does not ever mean they forget the incident - but that they learn to continue their lives and manage both grief and guilt.

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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 17:32 
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'Whenever possible I drive barefoot.'

Let us pray you never have to do an emergency stop when the ball of your foot has a bit of glass or grit clinging to it................. :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 18:18 
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Oscar wrote:
'Whenever possible I drive barefoot.'

Let us pray you never have to do an emergency stop when the ball of your foot has a bit of glass or grit clinging to it................. :twisted:


Yes, I've always been wary of that situation, as I used to enjoy driving barefoot in the Sprite days. 8-)

It was the stiletto heels that caused me most trouble, sitting in a car with legs almost horizontal and me bum about 8 inches off the deck! :lol:

Best wishes all,
Dave.


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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 22:58 
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i like high heeled knee length leather boots myself

i do find find the heels get scuffed so i've out a nice piece of carpet down to stop that happening



it does seem that some people will blame anything but their own incompetance

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 08:07 
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Why do ladies with nice legs want to be hiding them in knee length boots - leather or otherwise - in beautiful weather. Boots used to be sensible wear in wet or wintry weather.

More nonsense from the fashion 'industry' I suppose. :roll:

Best wishes all,
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