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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 19:38 
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[url=http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/tm_objectid=16215706&method=full&siteid=50002&headline=speeding-pc-case-appeal--name_page.html]Speeding Pc case appeal Oct 6 2005
[/url]
An appeal against a decision to clear a police officer clocked doing speeds of up to 159mph has been lodged by the Crown Prosecution Service.

Pc Mark Milton, from Telford, Shropshire, was acquitted of speeding and dangerous driving by a district judge at Ludlow Magistrates' Court earlier this year.

The 38-year-old, recorded exceeding the speed limit on the M54 by the patrol car's video camera, denied the charges. Mr Milton, trained in advanced driving, said he had been "familiarising himself" with the new vehicle in the early hours of December 5, 2003, when the footage was captured. The case is expected to be heard by three High Court judges sitting at the Divisional Court of the Royal Courts of Justice in London by the end of the year.

A CPS spokesman said: "Our contention is the District Judge was wrong in law and we have asked him to state a case for consideration by the High Court so they can decide whether he was right.


"The High Court will consider his interpretation of dangerousness for the purposes of dangerous driving and the issue of whether what the police officer was doing could be considered as police purpose."


The spokesman said officers were not required to obey speed limits while carrying out "police purpose", but the CPS would be challenging the suggestion this was what he was doing.


District Judge Bruce Morgan expressed concern at West Mercia Constabulary's "total lack of policy" on when and where police drivers should practise driving fast.



What...no quote from Brake.....looks like they missed this one

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 19:51 
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CPS wallah wrote:
...dangerousness...

what sort of a word is that FFS?

Presumably this new compound adjective can now spawn further equally valid offshoots, like "dangerousnessity", "dangerousnessicity" and even "dangerousnessicitiness". Presumably, in this man's world something is not "safe", it is "dangerousnessless"... :lol:

I think the word he was actually grappling for was "danger".

Your legal case in their hands. Gawd 'elp us! :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 23:12 
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Oh how I ache for the day Brunstrom is done for speeding in his Merc - although if - as he says - he drives it like a hearse, we'll have to wait until after the funeral. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 07:54 
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Follow him round and have an identical merc handy. Wait for him to go passed a gatso then nip out afterwards with your copy of his car, plates and all and set off the trap :twisted: I am surprised no-one has tried that as a defence as it would be entirely possible to get set up in this way and there is little way of telling.

We don't know whether he does drive it like a hearse but following him round with a videcamera for hours on end might pop up some driving infraction. It depends on how much time you are willing to invest in catching him out.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 14:43 
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Want to bet that he has a chauffeur


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:57 
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Interesting - the high court verdict will set a precedent. If that precedent is that 159mph is not in itself dangerous, that has implications for all drivers. Surely, if he isn't convicted in the high court, it will never again be possible to convict someone of dangerous driving based solely on their speed.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:26 
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nedsram wrote:
Oh how I ache for the day Brunstrom is done for speeding in his Merc - although if - as he says - he drives it like a hearse, we'll have to wait until after the funeral. :lol:

Brian


Hmmm.... an episode of Traffic Cops did show a hearse speeding on the motorway. The corpse was late for his flight - apparently... :wink:

:scratchchin: Does Dick drive it like the above example or does his wife walk in front of it as this is would be quicker and less frustrating for her....:twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: :scratchchin: :wink:

Of course - his daughter was copped twice well above the speed limit as a probationer. But "civilian reporters took the photos and were not trained" :roll:

:scratchchin: Perhaps he was acknowledging the danger of "slippage" :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 15:20 
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stevei wrote:
Interesting - the high court verdict will set a precedent. If that precedent is that 159mph is not in itself dangerous, that has implications for all drivers. Surely, if he isn't convicted in the high court, it will never again be possible to convict someone of dangerous driving based solely on their speed.

And if he is found guilty, it will force all police forces to severely restrict high-speed pursuit operations.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 18:38 
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PeterE wrote:
stevei wrote:
Interesting - the high court verdict will set a precedent. If that precedent is that 159mph is not in itself dangerous, that has implications for all drivers. Surely, if he isn't convicted in the high court, it will never again be possible to convict someone of dangerous driving based solely on their speed.

And if he is found guilty, it will force all police forces to severely restrict high-speed pursuit operations.


Definitely a tricky business. As you say precedent either way would impact - and if they decide to rule the wrong way - this will affect training etc.

However, I would say there is time and place for testing a car - and hopefully the court will arrive at the correct decision - which wil not undermine our training or activities in the course of normal duties and pursuits. :roll:


The problem here seems to be one of opening an "us and them" chasm. I have said previously that we are expected to represent and be ambassadors for the police force as the public expects our behaviour on and off duty to be exemplary to a certain extent :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 18:43 
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It would seem to me that the best result from this would be that PC Milton is acquitted, but that all police forces adopt a policy that high-speed training and evaluation is only to be undertaken with two officers in the car, and sanctioned by higher ranks.

To what extent that would be a general sanction is of course debatable.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 20:02 
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JT wrote:
CPS wallah wrote:
...dangerousness...

what sort of a word is that FFS?



its a word thats in the dictionary..

Noun: dangerousness deynjurusnus

1. The quality of not being safe

Derived forms: dangerousnesses

Type of: characteristic

Antonym: safeness


quite legitimate use for the word. . . maybe you should read the dictionary a bit more often ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 20:29 
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Emidsbiker wrote:
JT wrote:
CPS wallah wrote:
...dangerousness...

what sort of a word is that FFS?



its a word thats in the dictionary..

Noun: dangerousness deynjurusnus

1. The quality of not being safe

Derived forms: dangerousnesses

Type of: characteristic

Antonym: safeness


quite legitimate use for the word. . . maybe you should read the dictionary a bit more often ;)

There are plenty of other words in the dictionary I wouldn't use either, as they add a needless layer of obfuscation.

An ex-colleague of mine was describing the Audi he had just replaced his old Mercedes with. He said it was very good, though it didn't have the same prestigiousness! Now that word's in the dictionary too, but this doesn't alter the fact that it added nothing to the statement that couldn't have been stated more clearly by the use of the word "prestige".

IMHO the dictionary follows idiom, it doesn't define it. To a degree it describes what is current, rather than what constitutes good grammar and word selection. If enough people suffix "ness" onto dubious adverbs to create new nouns the dictionary will indeed fill up with them, but this in itself doesn't qualify their usage, particularly when the new word is nearly perfectly synonymous with the noun from which it is derived.

In what way is a "transportation network" any different from a "transport network"?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 20:34 
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In Gear wrote:
However, I would say there is time and place for testing a car - and hopefully the court will arrive at the correct decision - which wil not undermine our training or activities in the course of normal duties and pursuits. :roll:


Shouldn't that be set by internal police guidelines and perhaps disciplinary measures.

Using the courts to make a ruling in this case can only have a bad outcome as far as I can see.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 21:00 
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Homer wrote:
Using the courts to make a ruling in this case can only have a bad outcome as far as I can see.


Oh yes. The CPS should have left well alone. They got burned the first time and someone or something is going to get very badly burned the second time. Idiots!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 00:08 
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Homer wrote:
In Gear wrote:
However, I would say there is time and place for testing a car - and hopefully the court will arrive at the correct decision - which wil not undermine our training or activities in the course of normal duties and pursuits. :roll:


Shouldn't that be set by internal police guidelines and perhaps disciplinary measures.

Using the courts to make a ruling in this case can only have a bad outcome as far as I can see.



Indeed and the officer in question would have faced an internal inquiry or has yet to do so once the courts have dealt with it.

We are not immune from prosecution if we break laws tha knows! In this case the CPS decided to prosecute and a judge made a decision on the case. Perhaps bowing to public some lentilist outcry the CPS decided to appeal the decision and we now have a High Court which may set a prcendent which could impact on training and procedures.

Whatever happens - all Forces will be watching this result closely :roll:

Have to say - we do not tend to test our cars without checking and getting an OK from base... :wink: Low accident rate amongst our own as well as public :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:31 
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In Gear wrote:
We are not immune from prosecution if we break laws tha knows!


:roll:

Come off it!

Have a look at this!

I have concrete, incontrovertible evidnce that a Police Officer lied in a witness statement, and then in Court. I also consider that there is plenty of concrete evidence that the expert witness for the CPS in LTI 20.20 cases has mislead Courts by stating things which are simply not true.

I have put one such quote on the Pepipoo forums here. More will follow.

Nobody in the Authorities seems to care. Even the Home Office appear to be misleading us now. Didn't ACPO say that only US LTI 20.20s show errors?

How come the Daily Mail managed it with a UK device then?

From my recent experiences, you lot are quite happy to lie your little socks off when required. You are happy to withhold evidence in breach of numerous laws. Not just in the odd case, but time and time again. I have lost all respect for the Police. I used to have plenty. Now I wonder whether we are better off without you altogether.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 14:01 
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Mad Moggie wrote:
Of course - his daughter was copped twice well above the speed limit as a probationer. But "civilian reporters took the photos and were not trained" :roll:


ISTR that he complained that the reporting was "unfair" and that "she had done nothing wrong". One law for us... :x

Brian


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