Safe Speed Forums

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1278312006

Cameras can't put brake on red-light jumpers
ALASTAIR DALTON
TRANSPORT CORRESPONDENT

CAMERAS are failing to deter drivers from jumping red traffic lights at some of the most dangerous road junctions, it emerged yesterday.

Road-safety officials have expressed alarm after discovering the number of motorists being caught by Edinburgh's 25 red-light cameras shows no signs of falling.

In Glasgow, which has the same number of cameras, officials say the issue remains "a big problem".

Colin McNeill, the manager of the Lothian and Borders Safety Camera Partnership, said: "This is really worrying - we are getting the same number, month in, month out.

"It scares me that we are seeing no reduction because, when motorists drive through red lights, it's effectively 'collision time'. Running a red light is a very risky business."

Edinburgh's first red-light cameras were introduced in 1993, with the numbers progressively increased and the latest installed three years ago.

They operate at six of the 25 sites at any one time. The cameras are moved weekly, but all the housings flash when drivers run red lights.

However, they are activated only if motorists drive across a junction more than a second after the lights have turned red.

Drivers are fined £60, with three penalty points. The lack of progress in reducing offences came to light during analysis of the partnership's fines statistics, but no figures are yet publicly available.

Mr McNeill, whose group also operates speed cameras and comprises police, local authorities and the Scottish Executive, said a rethink of junction safety might be required.

"Red-light cameras are the last card in the pack, so we may now have to go back to the roads engineers," he said.

Neil Greig, the head of motoring policy for the AA Motoring Trust in Scotland, said that drivers had to be reminded of the presence of the cameras.

"Red-light cameras do not have the high-visibility markings of speed cameras, and many of them have been in use for so long they have just become part of the roadside furniture," he said.

"We need a new driver-education campaign, because we hear a lot about speed cameras but not much about red-light cameras."

"Even in a modern car, a side-impact accident can be lethal," added Mr Greig.

==============

Safe Speed issued the following PR at 05:51 this morning:

PR350: Red light cameras not working (surprise!)

news: for immediate release

The Scotsman today reports that red light cameras are failing to prevent red
light jumping with steady numbers of drivers continuing to jump the lights and
trigger the cameras.

>From the Scotsman:

Colin McNeill, the manager of the Lothian and Borders Safety Camera
Partnership, said: "This is really worrying - we are getting the same number,
month in, month out."

Safe Speed points out that this should be no surprise because the cameras
cannot address the main causes of red light running. Which are:

Observation failure. A driver did not see the lights. Cameras make no
difference because they cannot force drivers with poor observation to see the
traffic lights.

Judgement failure. A driver thought he could get through safely before the
lights changed. Cameras cannot improve judgement.

Criminals. Someone in a stolen car may recklessly and deliberately drive
through red lights but a camera will neither deter nor prevent.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "This is depressingly typical of modern road
safety policy. Nothing is being thought through properly. A simple logical
analysis of the real-world errors that result in red light running soon reveals
that cameras are unlikely to make much difference."

"Everyone wants safer roads, but we will not get them until we disband the
incompetent partnerships and ditch the useless cameras. We need to refocus road
safety policy away from regulation and compliance and back towards skills and
attitudes."

"British road safety was the best in the world. Now it is institutionally
incompetent at the highest level."

<ends>

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I just read this and was going to post and say that I expect many of the jumpers were people who didn't actually spot the lights, or genuinely thought that they would get through legally. As you say, cameras cannot fix these problems because the drivers weren't intending to break the law.

Is re-engineering not considered to be a card as well? Or is this an indication the SCPs are playing with less than a full deck...

_________________
Chris

..

_________________
Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

True.. some go through on amber setting which ist "tight" und there ist one on A580 which we once noted when visiting the relatives down that way.. Atherleigh Way. It let one car through und then stop. (Ist between that big roundabout at Leigh/Culcheth und the lights which lead to M6 junction at Winwick.

It has a red light cam und "they" cannot argue KSI rate as this was custom built new road und came complete with this cam from opening.

But we can never get the red light jump problem across when we do not have the "amber gambler" adverts on the telly any more..

Und we have cyclists moaning on und justifying themselves on here und in letters to both Autocar und Auto Express that

1. "they should have different rules to rest of other road users as

2. "They lose cadence und momentum if they have to stop at red"

Ist one simple rule for ALL RED TRAFFIC LIGHT MEANS STOP-P-P-p!] und IG spell out properly - so read through again !

Und we all know of roads und have seen people speed to "beat the lights" too.

But basically.. ist a COAST problem yet again ...und less focussing on single issues und cams by those in charge und more on COAST training und listening to Paul und other motorists who are actually on these roads und not having a doss on the benches in the House of Commons "pretending to be doing something und achieving nothing" would be a throttling up und steering in the right direction!

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Red light cameras don't work for the same reason speed cameras don't.

The correct thing to do when you see the yellow/amber light is to stop if it is safe to do so. The camera crowd is intent on eliminating that last phrase with a device that knows no discretion. If someone is just a few cm from your rear bumper, you should not stop.

Here in the U.S., the majority of tickets are given for people who are in an intersection/junction between 0.0 and 0.5 seconds. That's hardly dangerous, but it is highly profitable. European red light cameras generally have a higher "grace time", but we are still talking about the majority of incidents happening in less than one full second. Angle collisions (the bad kind) do not become a factor until around 4-5 seconds after the light turns red.

Here are the bottom line facts. Researchers not paid by those profiting from red light cameras in Australia, Canada and the U.S. have found accidents go up when cameras are used. Read the data yourself. Research that comes to a different conclusion is always funded by those directly profiting from the scam.