Safe Speed Forums

I have never argued with you on this point, So no they probably are not Safe legal and considerate, so what? You I hope are an adult, so therefore you have to consider what is safe.

If someone is driving on your bumper, it is safer to move out of their way. It is a no brainier. This leads to a lot less anger on your part. I don’t understand the difficultly why get mad?




errm I usally drive around 75mph as I belive I said in my post, 70-80mph.
To be honest not that many cars speed past me? I think the way you perceive things may be a little wrong. I can’t remember the last time I got flashed buy another driver. Sorry yes I can it was coming back from Germany, I was on the M42. A nasty evil BMW flashed to let me in Lane 3 to over take a lorry. He slowed a little to let me in I increased my speed to move out of his way quickly.

I can’t remember when I last flashed someone on a motorway, other than to let them go in front of me to overtake.

If you are getting flashed a lot think about how your driving style is affecting others.




I do not hassle people trying to stay legal,whats the point it only leads to anger and poor judgment on both sides. however you seem unable to accpet that those people may hassel me.

If you are sat in Lane 2 doing 60-65mph (and lane 1 is empty as far as the eye can see) and I am in lane 1 doing 70-75mph, yes you are a hassle (and as you state we are both legal). You are a hassle because I have to move to lane3 and back to lane 1 to overtake you. Then I get in the way of the demons in lane 3 all going to hell because they are travelling at 80mph. I suggest you get with the program, and stop making life difficult for those who what to make progress.

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civil engineer - glad we are getting some middle ground - I've already been in touch with 2 msp's regarding similar issues in our area - as we have motorways, dual and single a roads to contend with. Unfortunately the mp's and msp's dont give a jot to your situation or concerns - they arent interested in road issues unless it gives them good press - and putting forward a private members bill to get speed limits "sorted" isnt going to float their boat. Until they sort it we are lumbered with 70mph - and if more people adhered to that - then there would be less perception from speeders that people are dawdling in front of them to be awkward...

Twister - please read earlier postings regarding the 65 mph lorries/buses - there is also information there regarding lorries safe following distances. To remind you a lorry is roughly 16.5 to 18 metres long (48 to 54 feet). The figures posted earlier indicate a lorry going at 60 should have nearly 10 times the safe distance your advising - ie a lorry length. So unless there is a 1/4 mile gap to slot back into, then its not safe to drop out of l2.
The reference to 75mph is to satisfy the 10% mob who swear their cars are so bad at reflecting the speed limit properly.
Your reply gives a hint to why we get people being impatient - you should set time limits on what people do regarding when they pull back in. Unfortunately we are all different - including our skill, judgement and confidence - we must first understand that before we can realise that people arent just trying to "take the piss" as you mention.

r.tee - you state that if someone is on your bumper then its safer to move out of the way !! Thats not often the case - ie having to move into slower moving traffic and scrubbing more speed to do so etc - that is the reality of what these captain flash club often expect. Its up to the driver behind to act responsibly also.

Its also mentioned that you hardly ever get "flashed" - we'll in my opinion in the last couple of decades driving I've come across far far more captain flash club than the (count on 1 hand) amount of times you find a true mlm sitting in l2 at 50-65mph and nothing in lane2. Most alleged mlm's are just down to faster drivers and their impatience with those trying to drive within the "limitations and danger" of current laws.

I have never ever come across a 'Captain Flash', as you put it, who will flash me to overtake when I am alongside other traffic. Even in their ignorance they seem aware that selective intangibility is still in the realms of science fiction. They will however flash me, and in many ways rightfully so, if I remain in the lane after passing traffic, when there is enough space in a lane to the left such that I can pull in, thay can pass, and then I can pull out again before meeting further traffic without having to alter my speed. In this situation, why shouldn't I pull in, beyond your innane earlier comment that I might be abetting the commission of a crime? As far as my journey is affected, I lose no time, as I do not have to change speed, but I gain massively in peace of mind and safety, as I do not have someone driving agressively and frustratedly on my rear bumper, who would perhaps attempt an unsafe undertake, in his frustration, that could involve any of the other motorists in the area.

On that note, if there is space in the lane to your left for a driver to undertake you, then there is definitely room for you to move left, let them pass you safely, and then move out again without altering your speed. Science, innit!

I must be going blind (or PocketIE is hiding stuff...), I've just reviewed the entire thread and didn't see any references to safe distances-presumably when I get home and check again on the PC, they'll be leaping out of the screen like spawning salmon...

Edited to add: nope, no fishy emanations from my monitor at home either... care to point me in the right direction?

But as for the 65mph thing, just how many artics do you encounter that are capable of this? Aside from a few foreign-plated ones, the overwhelming majority of heavies I see in this part of the country (M25/London & M4/M40 corridors) seem to have functional limiters.




Umm, make that 5 times-I did say I left a *couple* of lengths, not just one...

That aside, you say 10 lengths is safe, so that's roughly 500 feet... if the heavy is correctly limited (and as I've just said, in my experience this is almost always the case), I'll be typically pulling in front of them with a 20-25mph differential, so with the 100 foot head start I'm giving myself, I'll be 500 feet ahead after 11-14 seconds anyway.




Why would it be unsafe to have less than 800 feet of clear lane ahead of you?




When a sizeable number of drivers stay out when the lane to their left is clear for as far as can be seen off to the horizon on a beautiful clear day, and when they've put several hundred feet of clear lane between them and the last vehicle they passed, then I'm afraid that isn't anything to do with differing abilities of judgment or confidence, it's plain and simple extraction of urine in ever increasing quantities.

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Chris

This shows you are an "MLM" who has not got a clue.

FYI

1/4 mile = 402 metres approx.
500 feet = 152 metres approx.
60 mph = 26 metres/second approx.
Typical car stopping distance @ 60 mph = 73 metres.

Go do the maths.

peegee wrote:
So unless there is a 1/4 mile gap to slot back into, then its not safe to drop out of l2.

And of course peegee has not thought it through --

doing this forces more cars into L3, to get behind another legal eagle doing 69.9 MPH ---result as seen on the M1 on Friday - congestion caused by slow moving traffic ( possibly not the cause ,but not helping ) --

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Saddens me to have to admit it - but I think we have much to learn from France where the minimum speed in the outer lanes is the speed limit and you can get points on your licence for holding up the traffic by sitting there if the "flic" spot you. More chance of this these days as France backed their 1500 network of scams with a doubling of RPU to target muppets (usually Brits abroad these days ) .

They will also fine you on the spot if they cop you straddling any broken line marking on any road as well. Not a lot of Brits or other foreigners apart from the Swiss nationals who are also long term targets) know about this one and the Swiss riiff raff informed that this appears to be rife to their knowledge.


However, I cannot recall being in my car or any car with any relative or pal driving and experiencing folk flashing us to get out of the way - apart from colleagues on a shout and we've always managed to assist their overtakes without compromising ourselves anyway.

All HGVs have limiters. We do have a problem with foreign lorries and the DfT has issued a THINK! - to remind us all that these vehicles are left hand drive and will have a SMIDSY zone as a result. The reminder is for us to give them a bit more lee way and be extra vigilant when sharing the roads with them.

If the left hand lane is empty and someone undertakes - then as Robin suggests - there is not that much reason to remain in the middle lane on that basis as you are not overtaking anything.

Also - you then face the hazard when you need to get into lane to leave the motorway or join the motorway to your left if you are sitting out in the outer lanes on cruise control (which will lull into trance if not careful )


But again - we come back to the C for concentration, consideration and courtesy part of COAST again along with the O for Observation which should alert you to plan position for selecting the right lane to continue your journey without creating a hazard to everyone else out there.

Do be aware that we do have unmarked on those motorways (or we do on our patch ) and Lancs/Cumbria/M4 Wilts have the vans (only everyone knows about them/where they sit Our way actually works better with a little - cough - professional discretion ) . But anyone driving inappropriately - and that also applies to unnecessary slow driving in an overtaking lane - will get tugged and it does depend very much as to what the officer saws and their professional judgement as to whether to let you go with a serious conversation about road safety or a serious conversation abnout road safety and an explanation as to why he thinks he has to issue a verbal NIP to you.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Apart from the (very minor) fact that it should be 70mph not 72, what on earth is wrong with doing that?

Because you're breaking the speed limit?

I would suggest that you stick to the speed limit (70mph if you didn't know), and then you wouldn't be catching up to such annoying people.

Why do you find it so irritating?



But you haven't done exactly the same thing as them because they were probably doing the speed limit. I have never come across anyone driving in L3 doing below the speed limit that I can remember.



And they could probably come up with some names about you too!

You talk about people being arrogant, opinionated, etc, but what about the people on this board? And how many of these middle-lane drivers drive at significantly below the speed limit?



Let us hope that the Highways Agency also launches a campaign to stamp out speeding, tailgating, using mobile phones whilst driving etc.

But hold on, they don't have every right to get past, as they are no doubt breaking the speed limit.



It's more likely to be the overtakee doing the flashing and offensive gestures I would have thought.



Perhaps we need a "stop speeding" helpline; after all, I suspect that it's an addiction for some, and a thoroughly unhealthy one at that, both for them and society. (Sorry for copying you; I got the idea from someone else.)

When you came across this blatant, deliberate blocking, what speed were you doing? Come on now, be honest!

I imagine that you were doing a fair bit of "blatant, unambiguously deliberate" speeding!

Woah...

"the speed limit", in the case of a motorway, is a random number thought up by people in the late 70s. It has no bearing on... anything. That's why it is safely ignored by thousands every day.

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Andrew.

I think I've written enough posts for now, so let me just say this:

I don't drive in the third lane but I do deliberately drive in the middle lane at the speed limit.

Most people on here are moaning at middle-lane hoggers, without seeming to recognise that they are (at the very least, also) in the wrong. Let's be honest now, we're not talking about middle-lane hoggers doing significantly below the speed limit. We're talking about middle-lane hoggers, in some cases deliberately, blocking speeding drivers. At very best, the speeding drivers certainly don't have a (legitimate) reason to moan!

Yes, the speeding drivers find the hoggers annoying, but vice versa!

To finish, do at least try and accept that hoggers are no more "morons" and "tw@ts" than speeders.

A quick reply:
In which case, what is wrong with driving in the middle or right-hand lanes? Along as you watch out for people undertaking you then what's the problem?

Depends. If it is "inconsiderate driving" then it in its self is illegal.
Just make sure you check to your left before changing lanes and don't try to drive into me as someone did last week.

I don't believe we'll ever get decent lane discipline in this stupid country where people think it's more important to make life difficult for people and feel good about doing it than to make life easier for everyone, so let's encourage people to overtake wherever there is a gap.

Mind you, get overtaken by a lorry on both sides at the same time and you'll soon not want to sit in the middle lane... That is really quite scary.

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Andrew.

You assume that anyone who wants to pass a MLM is speeding, why?

Since you are wading into this debate with such a weight of replies, I am certain you must have read the whole thread, and noted the established discrepancy between indicated speed and true speed. If you choose not to believe that either, why not buy or borrow a GPS system and see for yourself.

Given that you could be doing as much as 7mph under the speed limit whilst your speedo reads 70mph, how irritating do you think it would be for people who want to pass you doing a true 70mph having to dive into L3, with the extra speed, and therefore closing rate, that that normally entails, or move into the sizeable gap you have deigned to ignore in L1, and elephant race with you to be able to pull out before the next lorry (quite honestly, given the attitude you've displayed so far, I would not be surprised if you sped up in this scenario, just to block the other driver, and teach an 'undertaking speeder' a lesson!).

The fact of the matter is that good lane discipline benefits everyone. Traffic with a speed differential is further separated, making the road safer for everyone, as well as taking some of the stress out of the drive. Furthermore, utilising all of the space on a road increases its capacity, reducing the liklihood of traffic congestion.

In conclusion, you can bleat about doing nothing wrong in the middle lane, having 'legal right' to be there, and the 'illegal speed-freaks' are in the wrong, and should just tuck in behind your little rolling road-block, but the fact of the matter remains, that no matter what you feel should happen, hogging the middle lane without good reason does inconvenience and irritate others, and for that reason, if no other, why do it, when it would be so easy to move over?

yawn. Just spare a thought for the HGVs and towing vehicles who cannot use L3 when you're sat bimbling along in L2. If you happen to fall below 90kph then they have to either slow to match your speed or undertake.

Get your heads out of your ar*es, your ar*es out of L2 and LEARN TO DRIVE.

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