Safe Speed Forums

Were we? It doesn’t matter as car engines are generally most efficient at 1/3-1/2 of full power (high torque, half revs).

I did ask for relationship between speed vs dB (and speed vs time of exposure to noise).


Acceleration limiters are useless, that was dissected in another thread.
The "too fast is socially unacceptable" is part way there (so long as there is a consensus of what is too fast), but what can we do about those who continue to drive dangerously fast?

For one car, or a number of cars passing by?

Too fast is one thing.

Dangerously fast is another.

I'm most concerened about people who drive in a hurry, which also mostly involves driving too fast.

The sort of 'get out of my way I'm coming through' attitude that seems to afflict so many.

One will do. Others can be mathematically superimposed if need be.


Really? What's the difference?
Either way, what can we do about it?

Actually that's a very average definition.

The Safe Speed rule is way above that little lot in the importance hierarchy. Don't tell me it's gone from the Highway Code? I'll have to check.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thankfully it is still there.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_070304



Shame it's a poorly worded version.

The Safe Speed version is as follows:

Always ensure that you can stop comfortably, on your own side of the road, within the distance that you know to be clear.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

But I was stationary as the last car in a wave brake jam.

He was taken ill. His foot hit the wrong pedal when he went into cardiac arrest .. It would not have been avoided at any speed .. und I 'd still have been hurt und he's still be dead had he not managed to get up to 80 mph or just under at the time.


But in any case .. statistically - per the insurers - more shunts und shoves und collisions occur in crawling traffic than at the higher speeds. So how ist "slow" alwasy going to prevent a crash.

By the way - everyone in these shunts seems to "have biggest bruises und whiplash"

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Which also on page 67 of "RoadCraft" too but ist slightly differently worded as this ist the "bible" here




Per RoadCraft (und IG) - this enable you to assess the safety of your car.


It also provide guide to the safe speed at which you should corner und indicate too the speed und distance you keep from the other traffic.

(It within COAST (in the ST bit )

But to use this rule properly as RoadCraft say

you have to be aware of road surfaces, effects to a tight corner, brake and vehicle balance on tyre grip too.

But but we cover most of that in the COA bit


It then not a question of "speed" or "low speed" saving lives. That ist far too glib und a nonsense to say so.

Driving ist a skill which depend on combination of many other skills - including that of "courtesy" (as this not inherent any more in society und now seem to be some essential skill we now have to educate back in here )

But to concentrate on"Speed" as sole means of preventing accident ist a fallacy. It the COAST which maketh a safe -und even - good road user.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Aha!!! So I didn't imagine it then!

Yes, I agree your wording is better - but even then doesn't directly cover the single-track road issue fully, it does so more by inference.

And what does comfortably mean? To me it sounds like we should be able to stop gently and with bags of room to spare.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

That's a good thing to do. The difference between comfortable and maximum braking allows you time for the other driver's unexpected errors - like the other morning when I met a old lady coming the other way in a Volvo down the middle of a narrow road. Ordinarily there is just room for two cars to pass provided they both move right to the edge. She didn't move over but I was still able to slow and stop with two wheels up the bank as she sailed past without even slowing. If I had been relying on maximum braking I would have been stationary as she drove into me because I couldn't have put the car up on the bank whilst braking that hard. She wasn't speeding so she must have been safe...

Is this scientific research or just your opinion? I concentrate just as much when I'm doing 30 as when I'm doing 45.



So answer this then: presumably it's okay for me to drive at 90 in a 30 then, as long as I concentrate completely, is that right? If not, why not?



Two wrongs don't make a right.

But it also COAST skills. You see the hazard ahead or the limit point ahead changing as a constant .. along with the traffic condition also changing. You are concentrating. judging .. speed .. distance of approach und adjusting the drive, speed und gear accordingly. You also slow it down smoothly.. so as not to jerk self or passenger. to keep it silky smooth so that you "roll into the corners without hitting the brakes even .. und you feel the corner as result too without sending the shopping in the back hurtling across the car sear or boot.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

I think that neatly encapsulates the problem with the whole "numbers" game quite nicely. The answer to the above question is "no, but it's a good start"! You'd need to take a whole load of other factors into consideration and then MAYBE 90 WOULD have been safe in that particular 30 under those particular consitions! I also wish people woild loose this "binary" mentality where something is either "safe" or "unsafe". - like those are the only two options!

But are you doing 45 mph in a 40 mph/50 mph or NSL

I was behind the 40 mph everywhere driver tonight. He not notice any speed limit change at all ...nor did he slow up for the on-coming bus in the village either

Earlier in journey.. I behind the 5 mph below speed limit everywhere driver who narrowly missed the cyclist at a pinchpoint und cut someone up on a roundabout (He swerve into L1 from L2 as they enter the roundabout und the other car had to swerve toward kerb und I think he clipped kerb to avoid side sweep into his car.) I then note failure to indicate a right turn ahead too :rolleyes:

But still. he very "safe"... he not speeding und obviously "concentrating" - not!

Then in a 30 mph zone later on in journey.. am in 30 mph zone. residential. Am tootling along at 30 mph. The K:censored:b behind start to flash lights und toot horn. I take no notice. Can see pedestrian island ahead und right hand turn beyond that. Besides I know there ist a traffic light scam at the lights about 100 yard away from this.

K:censored:b-head decide then to overtake .. just as we get to the pedestrian island ,, und go on the other side of road as there no room und I am on top of this island which has woman who push wheelchair waiting to cross too He must have been at about 50 mph in this 30 mph by my own judgement of his speed He not in a police car either. He was a right twazak.

He then had to hit the brakes hard as lights turn red. He leave half his rubber on the road too.

I suppose though he must have been concentrating sort of as he stopped for the lights with the camera und went through the later ones on red which did not have a camera.

A real cop would have collared him.

You see .. these people.. they concentrate only on one hazard .. the one in the yellow box. It not matter if yellow or grey really.. this type look out only for these und nothing else

The 40 mph everywhere driver, like the 5 mph below speed limit everywhere notices nothing at all either und more luck that he never get pinged in reality.



He not saying that. He saying that shunts occur because the driver think he or she can "multi-task" by applying lippy or fiddling with some gadget.. und then you in back of something or hitting someone who think you see because you in crawling traffic.. like the old guy who die on A56 Manchester when driver fidding with handbag hit him. His bad luck that he got pneumonia und MRSA double whammy that time. As he recover from broken pelvis.




But because of automation.. no one appear to learn what ist right. anymore.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

It the road condition. Lot of NSL here. But you would choose not to drive 60 mph on many of them. Some you would want to drive at 20 - 40 mph .. whilst others .. some would be rather nice feature on a race track und perfectly safe too at fair rate of pulsating throttle too

But it what COAST .. where C also stand for Common Senses und Courtesy und A for Attitude as well as Concentration und Anticipation (based on Observations - which determine the safest speed at which to drive car.. und ist these principles which determine the actual safety und responsibleness of the driving.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

You're just nitpicking here. You must know full well what a residential area is.



No we couldn't.



Well you obviously don't understand the highway code. It's not about posting a safe and appropriate speed at the roadside, it's about posting a maximum speed.





But the point is that a speed limit is set, presumably depending on what is safe in average conditions, and if you break that by a small amount you get one punishment and if you break it by a large amount then you get a higher punishment. If all you're interested in is what the driver perceives to be safe then that's just an excuse for the irresponsible to drive at whatever speed they feel like.



No we don't, we can prosecute those who refuse to keep their speed within the speed limit.



Perhaps, like everyone else, he is just a human being who felt like a cheap thrill.



450 is what the BBC ("ROAR!!!!!" comes the response) reported the other day.

And no, of course a speed limit or camera wouldn't have made any difference. Do you and others actually take it in when I say we need a lot more traffic police?

No I can't because this is the tedious old line, "I can only keep to the speed limit by constantly staring at my speedo". I don't buy it. I don't have a problem with driving along whilst occasionally glancing down at my speedo and keeping within a rough amount of the speed limit.

And I'm also sure that drivers fiddle with the radio or argue with passengers whatever speed they're going at, so whether it's 45 or 30 it makes no difference to their concentration levels, IMO.



The other thing to say here is that the increased punishments are only for those who have exceeded the limit by a lot, so if that forces the reckless to at least keep their speed within this new gross margin for fear of losing their licence, then IMO that can only be a good thing.

On some (residential) roads near me I quite often see people driving at ridiculous speeds of 50 or even 60, so it would be great to get them off the road.

There was a lengthy debate or two about the 'safe speed' rule a long time ago. I can't find the threads now but, as I remember, there wasn't a firm consensus. Paul's version is better but still needs some 'elaboration' allow for single track roads AND to explain following distance. My version would be:

Always ensure that you can stop comfortably, on your own side of the road, within the distance that you know to be clear and can reasonably expect to remain clear or which you know, with reasonable certainty, will become clear.

(It's not very snappy though, is it?)

So what happens when the absolute accuracy of you measurement equipment is called into question?

After all your equipment is not capable of measurement to less than one MPH so how do you set threshold points for the higher penalties.

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Speed camera policy Kills