Safe Speed Forums

There can be houses around on 40 mph roads. Also on 50 mph /60 mph roads . I can think of a couple of such down in the burbs und there are plenty of road around here with clusters of houses on A road trunk through at the NSL.

There also M66 which seem to cut through what look to me like a housing estate.




Driveways. People have been killed when someone reverse at such speed from driveway into them. There have been a few such over the years in the tabloids. Plus a person on supermarket car park who receive fatal head injury after car hit when crawling at 5 mph to parking bay. He hit head on something when he fell.

Or how about .. trying to drive through pulsating surge of exodus from a football match at say.. Old Trafford - or Reebok which ist near some big shopping place... or even trying to drive down such a road to the supermarkets at Christmas when there are millions of shoopers all intent on finding tinsel, turkey und presents.

5 mph could be murderously fast on such occasions. Surely you not saying you would plough through these at 20 mph or 30 mph because of a lolly :rolleyes:

Or what about big factory or office block car park. It 5 mph "for a reason" on such car parks.




The Highway Code does not set these limits. The councils do und they toe the party line by lowering limits without much thought on roads which they identify as "lucrative" such as dual carriageway from 50 mph down to 30 mph for no reason. Sister in law tell me of A57 Warburton which was 50 mph up to M6. Lollies appear to have smudged out speed. There a couple of NSL reapeaters left .. but all the limit lollies - even on the side streets (which originally said 30 mph according to both Jazz und Ju-Ju) ar also blacked or smudged out. The last lolly they see ist a 30 mph zone und just recently they now see sign proclaiming "Police Speed Enforcement Area" - but nothing to tell them what speed to do after passing the 30 mph through a little urban village which always was 30 mph.


There ist onus on road planners to address the purpose a road has und set accordingly und not pander to muesli munchers who also equate "saving the planet with making cash for themselves" whilst at same time driving around in a very large gas guzzling car at our expense.



Urbans - you stick close to limit. (There are twazaks like one yesterday )

But we have ludicrous situations whereby some do not even stick to 10% let alone plus 2. (PH poster say he get 33 mph NIP from Drive Safe Manchester. I tell him to send to Paulie in mh reply over there - but they introduce Speed Course recently with 35 mph cut off. They invite wrong people und want the bums on seat probably to break even on the start up cost as did LanCASH££££re in the past

It undermine und create the resentments und achieve very little in terms of education whatsoever



Actually - you should be trying to educate und steer towards COAST as I would rather share road with someone who actually look at what he do rather than the one who rumble along at lolly speed but see nothing else.



He was the police officer who spout as you do about the merits of scams und the dogma of speed without even bothering to actually address safety issues .





Eh? We have always said COPS not CAMS. :

Plus actually locking up these twazaks might actually help. Almost every incident we see in regionals are hit/runs und if they ever found.. some spotty oik who has no licence und nicks the car.

They actually can be educated. We did so with our foster from hell released into our care after serving time for TWOC und other stuff in Youth Offenders' place. But then .. that take time und hard work und my husband nursing his jaw after this lad socked him one once.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

I think they do - indeed, they've been asking for it for some considerable time now! Presumably though, you would want trafpols to behave in the same way as cameras? -Rigorously enforcing the posted limit at all times?

So how exactly would you like the police to enforce the roads to keep them safe then?

What if someone was doing 60 in a 30 and thought that they were perfectly safe but the police disagreed?

What if the police, being only human, didn't like a particular type of driver, eg, the young or black, and pulled them over when they were doing, say, 35 in a 30, but let other drivers drive at 50 in that 30?



I agree; like calling someone who does 33 in a 30 a speeder as if to say that they're as bad as someone doing 53 in a 30. But the problem here is that when chosing to prosecute someone, other than pulling someone over for a quick talking to, there are only two options: either prosecute or don't. These new higher penalties for higher speeding are attempting to address that.

Just by being there. You jump to attention und on "alert" when you see police car. under

Seriously .. I think people do "sit up" in driving seat when they see a police car und try to make sure all "tight und has the "boo" without the "tickety" if you know what I mean.. I

I am playing with English again. I like to play around with words. It help me learn. But alas .. I never learn to spell here.


But police .. properly trained police.. professional police .. they have the cool professional objectivity - which require professional judgement. I think that will be way the profession has to develop anyway to serve a discerning und constantly developing society anyway




Again.. it way they handle tricksy situation. By being trained to be objective .. cool und calm - no matter what said to them. A bit like the guard outside Buckingham Palace . or the Grimaldi Place in Monaco.. or outside any State Residence .. or the Stasis .. never smiling outwardly - no matter how you try to make them giggle. Inwardly would be another matter. Und they do. Have you seen film called "Das Leben der Anderen". It about a Stasi officer who was cold on the outside .. but in his inner self.. he got emotionally involved with the people he spy on. It was based on true story und received Oscar this year too. It available on DVD with English subtitle. If you speak or understand German.. you get fullest appreciation . but the film und way the actors depict the dilemma und the fears .. speak the non-language volumes

But I digress.. I say police have to be professionally objective but able to judge situation fairly und squarely with an eye for true justice.




Again .. we back too professional objectivity und the recruitment und training of the officer calibre we require. Discreet. calm.. objective .. unbiased at all times when on the job .. but able to judge the situation properly und fairly.




No. They are talking of keeping existing fine for 33 mph drivers here. But we already have banning provision for these OTT twazaks. It called "dangerous driving"..// "careless driving..// negligent driving .. undue care driving"

Driving past a Gatso at above lolly speed - or being pinged on empty road ist hardly endangering anyone or anything. But a scam ist arbitrary und does not see the situation in entirety. A police officer .. cool .. detached und professional can ./// und can use professional judgement or discretion when dealing with such situations. Person learn something as result whether or not fined or let off with flea in ear here.

It why I want more COPS on road und LESS nonsense with a speed cam.

Also I would not be typing this had a police officer not helped keep me alive back then. to the

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

You see I don't buy that.

I believe YOU when you say it wildcat, but when I see most people write this what they really are saying is: -

I want no speed cameras, and will say it should be offset by more cops, but if this happened I then complain bitterly about how many people get pulled over by the cops.

We've already seen media "complaints" about the number of people being pulled for talking on their mobile phone, or having danglies on their windscreen.

I also thing speed cameras were one answer to hostility toward the police who were pulling people over for speeding.

I tell you, if they upped the number of cops on the road and got rid of speed cameras, the same people would winge about that instead.

Well, the way they were doing it before cameras became commonplace was delivering the safest roads in Europe and a steady 5-7% per annum drop in casualties. I'd say that wouldn't be a bad start, wouldn't you?



That was a frequent occurence before scameras and I don't suppose it would be any less common if we binned the scameras and went back to it. So the answer to that question is kinda obvious really - I'd expect the same thing to happen as used to happen - THEY'D GET BOOKED ! But unlike a scamera, they'd get booked there and then - not allowed to continue on their way endangering other road users and then posted a demand for money a couple of weeks after they'd forgotten all about the event. MOREOVER, I would expect the cops concerned to actually tell the miscreant WHY they thought that what they were doing was dangerous - maybe even with some video footage. At this point, a sensible (but inexperienced or below-standard for whatever other reason) driver would stand a chance of learning something and becoming a better driver. A different type of driver might not benefit from the same lesson, it's true (and I'm sure there would be plenty of them about) but at least they've been stopped from doing that particular crime. And who knows? The cops might even find other things amiss when they pull the errant motorist! They might be able to get a drunk or drugged driver off the road, they might even be able to prevent an unroadworthy vehicle from moving any further, they might... etc.




I think you'd need to credit them with a bit more professionalism than that! It's not that I don't think it could ever happen - of course it could, (and would), but faced with the choice between an imperfect system like that and an utterly crap one like we have now, I think I'd prefer to devote more effort to fixing the problems we had with the old system.

It could work both ways too. The only trouble is that these guys would have to be left ENTIRELY free to excercise their professional judgement - no stupid "targets", no political intervention. If they see someone tanking down the road at 200 MPH and they don't think they're causing a danger (unlikely but hopefully you'll get my point!), they'd leave them well alone. If they see someone doing 31 and they DO think they're dangerous, they book them. Many people on here will have seen it working as it should. The empty, dry clear motorway, they're doing 85, traffic car passes them at 95+, nobody's bothered, everyone's happy, the public respect the law because they realise it's being enforced sensibly and with discretion. Foggy day, some muppet's up your backside at 75, copper pulls him, everyone he's barged past sees him engaged in coversation with the officer on the hard shoulder as they go past and once again, justice has been seen to be done in a way a scamera never could.

The only thing I can't fit into this utopian vision of road policing is how the hell we get trafpols to make as much money for the government as scameras...

DAMN! I knew there was a flaw in it!

And finally, I notice in a later post, you seem to be somewhat scpetical that many members of this board would actually prefer "real" policing if it ever made a comeback. Well, obviously, you're entitled to your views - however scant the evidence on which they are based, but all I can say is I'm prepared to put my licence where my mouth is!

Okay, I would describe a residential road as one that has numerous houses on it and where it isn't exceptionally wide.



A couple of points: I don't see how any road is lucrative because you just need to keep to the speed limit. If the speed limit is unnecessarily low then that is another matter. (But I think the number of times when that is the case is very low.) And I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say "lolly" but if there are speed limit signs missing then you should try writing to your local council or MP and saying "Oi, do something about this".



I deplore hypocrites just as much as you do. But a road should be safe and if the local council has many people writing to them asking them to slow down the traffic then it is only right that they do something about that.



Firstly, in what way am I "spouting" anything? Secondly, I know who he was and he's a hypocrite. Thirdly, I am bothering to actually address safety issues because I'm saying that punishing people more for driving at a much higher speed than the speed limit is the right thing to do. I am also saying that we need far more traffic police to deal with all the other motoring offences.



The reason why I said the above is because Paul Smith was clearly implying that all I wanted were speed limits and cameras. Ernest Marsh implied the same. You are also saying the same type of thing where you mention the "dogma of speed" above.

And I was also saying the above because repeatedly not just on this thread but on all that I have been on, someone has said or clearly implied that because I want speed limits and cameras that I don't care about all the other motoring offences and that I don't want more traffic police.

It is VERY common. And I think it is a particularly stupid, right-wing, all-or-nothing way of thinking.



I completely agree.



It also takes money. Are you happy for your taxes to go up?

But my sisters-in-law tell me that the A666 Kearsley ist very wide. Has field on one side of it. It 30 mph. It always been 30 mph. It always had reputation of making drivers "think it 40 mph" und even before the scam hidden behind the bus stop .. it used to be a "nice little earner" according to the locals per the in-laws. (:hehe: I married into a similar family of "rebels" )

But they compare this to A6 which they say run almost parallel (they meet at big roundabout und continue A6 into Manchester Centre via Salford City Centre.

But A6 also has field on one side (Country Park or something) Houses on the other. Narrower than A666 ... 40 mph. Similarly A572 Worsley down to Motorway apparently.

There then no "consistency"




A666 above. This one very wide road which appear to give the wrong signals. It apparently always has. This also the only road which has not been "engineered" to reduce und create congestion by way of pedestrian islands und pointless hatching down the centre. The sisters-in law und the brother-in-law down there plus two cousin in that big 'burb all remark that this ist the one road which would benefit.. but then it lose its reputation for revenue raising. (It never had reputation for KSI by the way.. any more than the narrowed A575 into Bolton from their side of the 'burb)





They written to Cheshire who happen to be in charge. So far no reply. There also no red rectangle saying limit changed either on this A57 stretch from Glazebrook to M6 roundabout apparently.


I call the speed limit signs "lollipops" as they look like "lollipops or lollies" to me





Only the people have not written in about this. Lot of people in Bolton per a snippet the Mad Doc once post up in the past revealed how the residents objected to road narrowing for the worse und speed humps und a reduced limit as well on the Bolton ring road. The council ignored them in its quest to meet target on pointlessly dangerous cycle lane painting und the rest of an engineering on the road which the residents claimed would create congestion in the area. I gather they proven right too from Bolton press cuttings/reader letters.




Firstly, in what way am I "spouting" anything?


[/quote]

The "dogma"


Hides under the again.





We need more police ... but higher penalty point for speeding ist not going to stop the problem as we all know they screech to halt when they see the scams - visible or even hidden und speed up again afterwards. The only thing I would agree with the submarinated one on ist that folk "manipulate". They thus are inefficient means of creating road safety if "speed" ist the issue.

We are saying educate to COAST. This keeps folk "steadier"



Ach.. we so used to those wanting scams und scams alone


But it not speed which cause the incident. It the driver not applying COAST. We know that speed affect impact/outcome .. but the error ist the driver not looking.. Concentrating.. Observing und using all his Observing to Anticipate und then Plan by creating the Space und the Time to proact und react to the ever-changing condition on the road. If they do this .. then "speed" drop out of the loop as the COAST will determine the safest speed to proceed und this may well be below the lolly .. but on odd occasion on motorway when numpty overtakee accelerate on you or if you have to create a space for a lovely chap off to a "shout" with full woo-woos a-blazing ... may even end up above for moment or so


We not that daft We not saying "free for all" .. but derestricted A/bahn work fine in Germany (Of course .. am better trained nananananaNAH! )




I happen to like cops und some are idiots who like the bad teacher/medic/nurse etc want weeding out.




Yes... if it buy the services we need und require as a forward thinking society with an eye for professionalism und fairest play und justice .. und so on...

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Paul, the day that I see you present as a contributor to a Parliamentary Special Committee on "Road Safety" on the "Parliament Channel" instead of the likes of Teaspout 2000, et al, the Hedge Hog defence league, and the old lady down the road.......... then I'll have more respect for their misguided conclusions.

Until then, they're all a bunch of P*^!/>@*!!!!!S

Why the HELL don't they STOP listening to these bigoted people?.....GRrrrr!
Until that day comes we'll never get any sense out of them. PS I've beat the rush and bought my "Red Flag" early...........