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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 13:10 
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Notice the Times article says the rider was unlicensed and (automatically) uninsured. Has this escaped Brunstrom's attention?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 13:35 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
However, Brunstrom also confirmed that the families of the dead men were not aware the images were being used in the presentation. The identities of the victims were not given however the details of a distinctive T-shirt worn by the motorcyclist was shown with the slogan: “Piss off and catch some real criminals”.


So you can't take pictures of your own kids on a playing field these days, but this moron is allowed to get away with things like this????

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 13:58 
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gopher wrote:
Can't help but think what a sick, stupid, small minded little man. He really should not be in a position of any power if he can do this.

It's perverse and I agree he should resign


I don't think he should be allowed to resign. He should be sacked.

There is no justification - even if you are anti-speeding - to use such images and increase the suffering of the family.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 15:05 
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If you'd like to get in contact with Brunstrom.

Brunstrom's Blog

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 15:26 
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North Wales Police Chief Superintendent Geraint Anwyl said the head was torn off by the force of the impact, he explained: “His oxygenated brain went flying down the road for 50 metres, before he expired."

Apart from the fact that this is nonsense as the guy would have died instantly, the chief superintendent's comments would be deeply hurtful to the family.

Would they use this technique if it had been their own son? I think not. The word Paul used was buffoons, I would use much stronger language.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 15:33 
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It depends on your definition of death, and the fact we can never be certain how long conciousness remains with a decapitated head (you can ask them, but they can't tell you!).

It is a massively valid point though that to give the family the impression that their (no-doubt) beloved relation had to suffer a period of awareness of his own decapitation before he expired is nothing short of reprehensible!

In my line of work he'd be taken round the back of the hangar.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 16:23 
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I'm uncomfortable replying to this but, for information and to put the record straight, he wouldn't have known anything about the accident or indeed anything thereafter. I have spoken with a doctor at our service who is very qualified to talk on this matter.

The reaction people claim to have seen on the faces of those who were sent to the guillotine, for example, is one of instinct. Once the blood supply is cut from the head, and the resulting seizure of the brain stem, you immediately loose all sense of this world.

Sorry if it's too graphic or upsetting but I hope it's a comfort to all who were concerned about any possible awareness or suffering he may have had - myself included.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 16:30 
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I take your point about definition of death, but I would say it is more likely he lost conciousness immediately, and did not watch the world going round as his head spun through the air. However, this is the impression the chief superintendent undoubtedly wanted to convey to make his point more graphically. SICK!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 16:54 
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fergl100 wrote:
I take your point about definition of death, but I would say it is more likely he lost conciousness immediately, and did not watch the world going round as his head spun through the air. However, this is the impression the chief superintendent undoubtedly wanted to convey to make his point more graphically. SICK!


Absolutely fergl100 :thumbsup: and this is all I wanted/hoped to convey from someone who is at the top of his profession in the NHS rather than get it from hearsay or opinion.

The chief superintendent would do well to have a physiological evaluation IMHO.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 17:02 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
It gets worse.

The Biker was photographed at 10am at 125mph by an Arrive Alive van. He died at 4pm - 6 hours later. NWP did nothing to prevent his death.


According to this article it was on "false plates" too (or could have been unregistered), so they weren't even the sort to worry about a scamera van.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 17:39 
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that's outragious.

parading images of the dead - where is his respect - this is dusgusting.

I think it may even be illegal - I'll check...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 17:49 
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So nothing to do with speeding at all then

see here:

http://blog-convict.blogspot.com/

misjudged the bend and failed to plan an appropriate overtake.

A speed camera would not have prevented this


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 18:10 
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Safe Speed issued the following PR at 12:53 today (although I've had awful problems sending it via cellular network):

PR473: Brunstom's final blunder

news: for immediate release

Further details are emerging about the hideous photographs displayed
yesterday by Chief Constable Brunstrom. Safe Speed says this is so seriously
ill-judged that it must end his career.

- The biker was photographed by a speed camera van driving recklessly at 125mph
at 10am and died 6 hours later at 4pm.

- North Wales Police did nothing

- The crash took place on 14th September 2003 - when Mr Brunstrom's policies
were in full swing.

- The biker's name was Mark Gibney. He was riding with no licence, no insurance
and an altered registration mark.

Paul Smith, founder of http://www.safespeed.org.uk, said: "Brunstrom is the
architect of modern speed camera policy, but he's a blundering buffoon. The
policy was wrong from the start and has failed to save lives.

"This latest epic blunder will surely be his last. It's impossible to
understand how he might survive it. Brunstrom must go and go now."

"Speed camera policy didn't save this biker or anyone else. Proper roads
policing prevents dangerous driving, but speed cameras don't. Speed cameras
have failed as a policy and they must go."

<ends>

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 18:55 
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Brustom has a comment on his blog...

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/en/blo ... =1&CID=204

Quote:
Arrive Alive.

I am dismayed that a meeting, held to explain our vision to further reduce the carnage on our roads here in North Wales, building on our outstanding success to date, has been deliberately distorted and misrepresented by a small section of the media for their own purposes.

Journalists regularly ask us for guidance so that they can report fairly and accurately sensitive matters in context. The meeting held yesterday was a closed one, to an invited audience of journalists and road safety professionals, all of whom had been warned in advance that they would be briefly exposed to harrowing images, in order that the media could better understand the full context of the Arrive Alive project. The invitations made it very clear, in writing, that these images were not, are not and will not be released into the public domain - a point emphasised verbally during the meeting. They were included as a minor part of the presentation to counter the continuing tendency in some sections of our society to trivialise road death.

The bulk of the meeting was firstly about the fact that there are dozens of people alive today and hundreds more uninjured because of our actions in tackling unnecessary road death, and secondly, an exciting discussion about our plans to save even more lives in the future.

A fundamental plank of our past and future plans is compassion, for the victims of road death and their families. Police officers and others in the emergency services care so deeply about the reduction of road death precisely because we are daily called to face scenes such as those shown briefly, and in confidence, to this invited audience, in closed session.

I am heartened that the vast majority of those journalists present chose to honour this confidence. In the same breath, however, I repeat my dismay that at least one person present did not, and may thereby have avoidably and unnecessarily added to the grief of relatives.


Clearly he feels no responsibility at all for 3 kids reading in the paper about their dads last moment.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 19:27 
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Brunstrom wrote:

I am dismayed that a meeting, held to explain our vision to further reduce the carnage on our roads here in North Wales, building on our outstanding success to date, has been deliberately distorted and misrepresented by a small section of the media for their own purposes.


Outstanding Success? In what? Failing to reduce road deaths?

He's dismayed at being caught out for being a buffooon. And made up this piffle after the event.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 19:57 
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He is dismayed that journalists, yes that's right journalists, have reported on what they saw at this meeting.

I am dismayed that someone so stupid could attain so high a position in our police force.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 20:27 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Brunstrom wrote:

I am dismayed that a meeting, held to explain our vision to further reduce the carnage on our roads here in North Wales, building on our outstanding success to date, has been deliberately distorted and misrepresented by a small section of the media for their own purposes.


Outstanding Success? In what? Failing to reduce road deaths?

He's dismayed at being caught out for being a buffooon. And made up this piffle after the event.


you should ask for an invite to the next one paul


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 21:36 
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R1Nut wrote:
If you'd like to get in contact with Brunstrom.

Brunstrom's Blog

In a recently published article, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/6595649.stm

It was reported that, "The chief constable claimed 70% of the public now supported his road safety drive"

Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 I now ask you to provide me with the information on which you based such a claim.

It is my understanding that this communication is a sufficient requirement to obtain that information and I look forward to your prompt acknowledgement of my request.

I believe that for you to tout the headless body of a motorcyclist in your claim to improve road safety was in complete disregard for any human decency and that you should now resign immediately. You are unfit to continue in the role of chief constable.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 21:45 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6600995.stm

Quote:
Row over decapitated biker photo

Mr Brunstrom has been 'disrepectful' says one MP

A row has erupted after pictures of a decapitated motorcyclist were shown at an anti-speeding media briefing given by North Wales Police.

Chief constable Richard Brunstrom showed images of a 40-year-old man, who died in 2003, without seeking the permission of his family on Merseyside.

Local MP Bob Wareing has called for Mr Brunstrom to be reprimanded.

Mr Brunstrom in his weblog said those attending had been warned they would be "briefly exposed to harrowing images".

North Wales Police admitted they did not seek permission but would not comment on the case.

The photographs of 40-year-old Mark Gibney were shown at a private anti-speeding briefing for the media on Thursday.

One image showed Mr Gibney's head in his helmet, his eyes open, on a grass verge.

Mr Wareing, who is Labour MP for the West Derby area of Liverpool, said he was very concerned, and had contacted the Home Secretary John Reid about the matter:

"It's totally deplorable," he told BBC Five Live.

This is unnacceptable behaviour from a senior public servant - Martyn Jones, Clwyd South MP

"The idea that a chief constable can display images of a dead person without first consulting the family is completely unethical.

"I heard about it only last night actually, and I was horrified. I can't imagine, you know, what went through the chief constable's head."

North Wales Police said they would not be confirming the name of the decapitated motorcyclist or making any comment on the case.

Mr Brunstrom, writing in his weblog on the force website, accused a small section of the media of "distortion".

He wrote: "The meeting was a closed one, to an invited audience of journalists and road safety professionals, all of whom had been warned in advance that they would be briefly exposed to harrowing images, in order that the media could better understand the full context of the Arrive Alive project.

"The invitations made it very clear, in writing, that these images were not, are not and will not be released into the public domain - a point emphasised verbally during the meeting.

"They were included as a minor part of the presentation to counter the continuing tendency in some sections of our society to trivialise road death."

He said compassion was a "fundemental plank" of police plans and those involved cared "deeply" about reducing road deaths "precisely because we are daily called to face scenes such as those shown briefly, and in confidence, to this invited audience".

Mr Brunstrom is no stranger to controversy, particularly over his approach to road safety. In 2004 he admitted he had an obsession with tackling speeding motorists.

The motorcyclist was not named during his presentation but details of his distinctive T-shirt, which bore an anti-police message, were given.

The T-shirt received widespread publicity during his inquest, and effectively identified him to journalists.

His partner Eileen Burke told the Liverpool Echo: "We should have been asked. We are trying to put this behind us. His death should not be dragged up again."

Martyn Jones, MP for Clwyd South, called for Mr Brunstrom to consider his position, adding: "To use these images in this manner, was a contentious decision in itself.

To use them in a public forum without consent of the family was "cruel and disrepectful as it has re-opened the family grief, in horrific detail.

"This is unacceptable behaviour from a senior public servant."

"I believe that the chief constable should seriously consider his position over the weekend."

A former North Wales deputy chief constable, Bill Brereton, said the decision was "ill advised and ill considered".


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 22:08 
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diy wrote:
So nothing to do with speeding at all then


Don't be ridiculous.


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