Safe Speed Forums

'Clean driving records' meaning what? 20 years' no-claims, avoidance of setting off Gatsos so remaining points-free, or what?

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'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

I think that was a misprint - it was actually 74mph

Cheers
Peter

Yeah. I suppose you can't blame him for using any avenue open to him to get off the charge, but 159 mph is a bit of a piss take nonetheless.

I.ve HAD to do 150 mph in pursuit of a stolen car. I've HAD to reach 150 mph to catch a speeding vehicle.

If I had a new car to use, I'd rather know how the car was going to behave before I had to use that speed in a live incident.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

I agree with you, but that use of the word 'HAD' seems a little strong. Surely you mean you used your skill and judgement to determine that it was reasonable and prudent to use those speeds given all the prevailing circumstances...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Drinkies at the lodge all round tonight courtesy of PC Milton I believe.

Absolutely disgusting - the book should have well and truly been thrown at this idiot.

Now the government should seriously look at shutting down the scamera partnerships if it is OK for people to bomb about at 159mph.

Mixed messages - I should cocoa. If I had a NIP from today forward I would write across it PISS OFF in big letters, and refer the judge to PC Milton's case in court.

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6 points for speeding - higher insurance costs. Its the £120 for the B&W photos of the car I object to!

If I didn't feel safe, I wouldn't do it!

The use of 'HAD' was because I needed to drive at those speeds for a successful result.

But I'm sure you designed your response to allow me to clarify my last post.

Having said that I did follow a motorist at 104.3 average over 3 miles in rain poor visibility and moderate to busy traffic volumes. He was tailgating, and displaying aggression. I was on the edge of backing off for safety reasons, but took an early opportunity to stop the driver.
When asked if he know why I stopped him he replied. "The mobile? I know, I'm sorry..... Pressures of work, you know."

If we had a poll about whether PC Milton or my speeder were the more dangerous, I'd be pretty sure of the outcome of the poll!

My man did get 56 days off the road IIRC.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

He was charged and taken to court, if he is in masons then they didnt do a very good job.



Maybe thats the idea, let people know that speeding is not necessarily dangerous - then they can catch more people speeding and generate more revenue.

Maybe this case was brought for political reasons,

Questions being raised in media about cameras being revenue earners and not for road safety,

so authorities prosecute policeman for exceeding speed limit by huge amount ( an almost unbelievable speed in a Vectra ),

Policeman found not guilty of dangerous driving,

results in outcry in press,

cue clampdown on exceeding speed limit,

lots of cameras on motorways etc.

Wasn't their an ordinary chap that got aquitted a while back that had been taken to court for dangerous driving for his speed? Think his car was a mazda sports car, cant remember and cant find story now but the judge sed something about 'just cos his speed was excessive didnt mean he wasnt in control'? Think he got a speed fine but kept his license. Does any one know the case? Where can I find the story/thread?

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Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

You can argue until the cows come home about the safety or not of 159mph on a Motorway. You can also debate whether Police officers need to learn about the characteristics of their cars on the public highway.

However what I cannot see is what you can learn in a 30mph that you can't learn in a 60mph zone.

i.e. if he needed to learn about the 60mph behavour of his car do it in a derestrictied area (i.e. 60mph zone).

Simply no execuse is possible for 60 (or 80) in a 30 zone, none, zilch, absolutely zero.

And don't forget 15th July 2003 two bikers where jailed for less, and there was no mention of dangerous driving - they admitted to dangerous driving but the danger was 'driving at 157mph'!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 068731.stm

My observations.

1: Legal judgement that high speed is not in itself dangerous.

2: Appalling double standards. I would have been inclined to say if the conditions were correct and the risks assessed then so what if the PC drove at that speed. But Given the new speed camera obsession and the number of NIP's i and my friends have recieved for pretty minor infringments of speed limits then I'm afraid my belief in the british justice system has all but collapsed. If the anti speed lobby are correct then the PC should have been sacked and locked up, all 'testing' to be confined to tracks. If the judgement is correct then the camera units should be disbanded forthwith.

I really think we motorists should consider some form of mass action against the units, god knows what and who knows if the natural inertia of the silent majority could be overcome but we can't carry on like this! I strongly urge all those issued NIP's to challenge every detail and swamp the units in correspondence. Demand to see the photos then demand to see the videos. If they done't respond or you are unhappy with their response then demand to see their complaints procedure and complain. Tie the buracrats up in their own red tape! If they want my £60 then I'm bloody sure I'm going to make sure I get more than that out of them in wasted effort!

My feelings exactly, civil engineer.
[as an aside, a mate of mine was a civil engineer, and they had a great sign on their door at work - "Stress office". Wonderful ]

We are required to behave ourselves in our patch. Having said that - we do practise driving at speed on track and we do have some mock up practices as well. Like Ian - none of us like to try out a new car "live" - and yes - we do have to drive at high speeds on occasions - and we are always aware that this needs concentration on the job at all times too.



Er... perhaps you may see it that way. But the crooks we end up pursuing in these zones don't. Not condoning - but we can only go so far on track and in simulators.

However, without back-up and authorisation - we'd take a pretty serious view of 159 mph blat here -as we are supposed to be seen as example. Said before - drummed into me early in career that all officers are viewed as "ambassodors" for the Force and as such are supposed to behave and be seen to behave properly.

Do not know the full ins and outs of this case - but the judge appears to have been satisfied with the case as presented to him.



But the difference was that the officer who copped them saw the bike lean heavily in the overtake of a lorry. This speed was not on an empty road in clear conditions. There is a big difference.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

When we tested racing cars we took them to http://www.bruntingthorpe.com/motor_industry_proving.htm

It has got everything you need to test handling, acceleration and braking performance as well ad maximum speed

Whats wrong with going there instead..?

Even joe public can get a car on there to test.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Reality is that with modern decent cars, we are pretty sure that for the most part they are going to perform pretty well. We don't generally grab the keys for the '05' and use the fact that it's a new model to 'floor it'.

In our neck of the woods we'll generally get about 100 standard 'immediate response' jobs to every one which is a 'man and machine tester'. We can use these runs to test the feel of the car, and familiarise ourselves with its idiosyncrasies.

But as In Gear said, we must consider the public perception of our activities, and the job will always require us to explain the reasons for exceeding the speed limit if challenged.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Just a thought, will we be seeing a prosecution of the police force, that this officer is an employee of ?? Just wondering as from what I've seen in the press there seems to be little in the way of guidelines, procedures, risk assessments and more importantly management of the potential risks by the force itself.

The force are now reviewing and amending thier guidelines in light of this prosecution (would imply that they may not have been up to much cop), if there is anyone from the HSE here I can think of a few pieces of legislation that could be used:

The Police ( Health and Safety ) Act 1997
The Management Regulations

Any thoughts on what the force could have done and perhaps might need to be doing ??

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

My 'stress office' is my bloody car!! 40,000 odd miles a year constantly fearing the coming home to see what message the postman has delivered from whatever county's cash generating unit I happened to have accidentally transgressed in!

Its a fundamental part of my job to assess risk, Its what I do for a living and yet some bunch of jumped up office clerks have the audacity to lecture me on the perils of speed and 'basic physics'!!

As for the judgement, i happen to think that based on common sense its fine. But the most appalling example of double standards!

We're going to hell in a hand cart! (and probably exceeding the NSL!)

I've heard a rumour that the CPS have appealed Mark Milton's case.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

All things considered, I think that's bad news.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!