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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 14:39 
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PeterE wrote:
**Mike** wrote:
Bring on increased roads tax’s, petrol costs, make all people drive hybrid or hydrogen cars and make people use more public transport compulsory where its unnecessary to drive.

So you want to pay far more for everything you buy in the shops, do you?

Continue parading your ignorance, mate, it keeps the rest of us entertained :lol:


whats road tax, petrol tax... got to do with shops??

Ignorance.. me?

Someone who is genuinely concerned about the environment, my children’s children will all have Asthma, unless we do something about pollution from industry, cars and using up all natural resources?

Ignorance is expecting to knock down green things and replace them with tarmac and disregarding the environment.

I’m the ignorant one hay?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 15:34 
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**Mike** wrote:
PeterE wrote:
**Mike** wrote:
Bring on increased roads tax’s, petrol costs, make all people drive hybrid or hydrogen cars and make people use more public transport compulsory where its unnecessary to drive.

So you want to pay far more for everything you buy in the shops, do you?

Continue parading your ignorance, mate, it keeps the rest of us entertained :lol:


Ignorance is expecting to knock down green things and replace them with tarmac and disregarding the environment.


Sorry to take this off topic even further, but Mike I don't know if you have children or not but if you are that concerned about the environment you should be campaigning for people to stop reproducing, it's all about supply and demand.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 02:38 
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Dixie wrote:
**Mike** wrote:
PeterE wrote:
**Mike** wrote:
Bring on increased roads tax’s, petrol costs, make all people drive hybrid or hydrogen cars and make people use more public transport compulsory where its unnecessary to drive.

So you want to pay far more for everything you buy in the shops, do you?

Continue parading your ignorance, mate, it keeps the rest of us entertained :lol:


Ignorance is expecting to knock down green things and replace them with tarmac and disregarding the environment.


Sorry to take this off topic even further, but Mike I don't know if you have children or not but if you are that concerned about the environment you should be campaigning for people to stop reproducing, it's all about supply and demand.


This may be painful to hear but, humans are more important that cars.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:17 
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**Mike** wrote:
Dixie wrote:
**Mike** wrote:
PeterE wrote:
**Mike** wrote:
Bring on increased roads tax’s, petrol costs, make all people drive hybrid or hydrogen cars and make people use more public transport compulsory where its unnecessary to drive.

So you want to pay far more for everything you buy in the shops, do you?

Continue parading your ignorance, mate, it keeps the rest of us entertained :lol:


Ignorance is expecting to knock down green things and replace them with tarmac and disregarding the environment.


Sorry to take this off topic even further, but Mike I don't know if you have children or not but if you are that concerned about the environment you should be campaigning for people to stop reproducing, it's all about supply and demand.


This may be painful to hear but, humans are more important that cars.


But without humans you wouldn’t need cars, and without more humans you wouldn’t need more cars, you wouldn’t need to chop down more forests, you wouldn’t need to use more of the world’s natural resources, the list is endless.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 15:07 
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**Mike** wrote:
Someone who is genuinely concerned about the environment, my children’s children will all have Asthma, unless we do something about pollution from industry, cars and using up all natural resources?

Ignorance is expecting to knock down green things and replace them with tarmac and disregarding the environment.

I’m the ignorant one hay?

Sorry, but you are ignorant about the causes of Asthma - and so is everybody else, because the cause is not known. What is known is that vehicle fumes (with the exception of particulates beltched out by buses which aggravate existing conditions) have absolutely nothing to do with it - except in the imagination of car haters that want to put the cause of absolutely every problem known to man onto the evil car.

PulmonologyChannel wrote:
The cause of asthma is unknown. Studies suggest a strong link between asthma and atopy, the hereditary presence of antibodies associated with allergic reactions. Exposure to environmental allergens can trigger asthma symptoms. Among the most common allergens are microscopic droppings of dust mites and cockroaches, airborne pollens and molds, plants and plant proteins, enzymes, and pet dander (minute scales of hair, feathers, or skin).

Exposure to a variety of occupational irritants (e.g., vapors, dust, gases, fumes, tobacco smoke, air pollution) also can worsen or cause asthma.

http://www.pulmonologychannel.com/asthma/causes.shtml

If you don't believe them, then how about the Governments Chief Medical Officer in 1995, an NHS commissioned report in 1999 or Dr Martin Stern of the British Alergy Foundation. The ABD have done a page about it because so many people have been fooled by the car haters: http://www.abd.org.uk/asthma.htm

One of the safe speed members even raised an ASA complaint about a "Cars Cause Asthma" advert on the back of a bus because it was a blatant lie. http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3278.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 17:06 
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What reports say is that its difficult to say with any certainty the causes of Astma, although the rise in emissions and changes to the environment an pollution have been linked by many scientific studies, but its not a certainty.

What we can say with certainty is that there are more Astma cases now than many years ago, and what’s changed? Pollution ….

Anyway, we keep going off topic.

My suggestion is that we make driving tests harder.
18 isn’t such a bad age for people to take a test, public transport is pretty good in this country.

What happen to the argument that the government were only interested in revenue.. and the lose of tax revenue from the 17 year olds??

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 17:23 
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**Mike** wrote:
What we can say with certainty is that there are more Astma cases now than many years ago, and what’s changed? Pollution ….

diet
water quality
drug use
sleep cycles

I'm not saying pollution isn't a cause but it isn't the only changed variable. I should also highlight the difference between the terms emissions and pollution (I very much doubt CO2 is responsible for asthma).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 17:26 
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smeggy wrote:
**Mike** wrote:
What we can say with certainty is that there are more Astma cases now than many years ago, and what’s changed? Pollution ….

diet
water quality
drug use
sleep cycles


The decline of coal fires and the growth in central heating seems the most likely primary factor. We now tend to live with more heat and much less ventilation.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 17:27 
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**Mike** wrote:
What we can say with certainty is that there are more Astma cases now than many years ago, and what’s changed? Pollution ….


The human population has also grown.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 19:13 
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Dixie wrote:
**Mike** wrote:
What we can say with certainty is that there are more Astma cases now than many years ago, and what’s changed? Pollution ….


The human population has also grown.


Lets get away from Astma shall we, I had a very close relative that died at a very young age, given that nothing can be proven or disprove, we will just have to leave it there.

Coming back to cars

The argument that if there were not so many humans they would not need so many cars, so there should be less humans….

Come on! We were around years before cars, public transport’s pretty decent now and I just cant see why people feel roads are more important than the environment and HUMANS.

The sooner hybrid cars are mandatory and road tax is more costly the better IMO.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 19:41 
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**Mike** wrote:
public transport’s pretty decent now


You’ve got to be joking, now that companies are running public transport they are cutting down on this all over the country, they only operate the routes that make money so as to keep their shareholders happy. I live in Cheshire, and work near Didcot. I’ve just done a quick search on train fairs. It would cost me £42.50 single. I’d then have to get from my house to the station for Chester, I’d have to get from Didcot station to work, I’d have to get from work to my digs and back everyday. The first train from Chester is 6 in the morning arriving at Didcot at 10.20am.

I use my car and do the whole round trip for around £28.00 (this would also cover getting to the stations and between work and my digs) I also arrive at work for 7 am in the morning on the Monday. I think you need to have a closer look at public transport and the cost involed, and the state of repair it's in.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 22:09 
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The sooner hybrid cars are mandatory ..


Why do you think hybrid cars are "the solution" when their dust-to-dust energy and materials consumption is worse than most conventional types?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 00:07 
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Hybrid cars are cheaper to run and give off fewer emotions, eventually they will be much cheaper to buy.

Off topic again.

So what would be the solution to the growing numbers of cars on the road/miles per year?

In 50 years time there will be problems..

Raise the legal age to take a test to 18, compulsory driving retests ever ten years, every 5 for over 50’s.
Make tests much harder and make test pass requirements much tougher.
A minimum of six months tutoring from a driving instructor before you can actually take a test.


Road tax by the mile!

There we go, that’s what I think is a fairly good solution.

Anyone care to offer their own?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 08:51 
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Well, that's given me a good laugh this morning. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:15 
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This is about raising the driving age isn't it?

I was getting quite attached to the idea of a raising to 18 but I'm not sure now. Afterall I was driving at 17 and didn't dies so that proves it's not impossible.

I just think we need to teach our kids about risk, risk awareness and mitigation in general from an earlier age and specifically about motoring/cycling/pedestrian risks. Why not make Cycle proficiency complusory if you want a provisional licence?

Also I'm coming round to a 2 phase test whereby you have to have a re-test after 12 months before your licence is 'confirmed'. I don't see any particular benefit in 'P' plates (but I'm prepared to be swayed) my concern about them is that 1 they could make the driver a target and 2 you shouldn't be driving unsupervised unless you're capable in the first place.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 19:44 
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I like your idea of a 2 phase test, that’s makes sense.

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