Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sat Apr 25, 2026 18:15

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 116 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 00:13 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
Hang on .. a bus lane via Kearsley .. would be along a partial residential of the A666. :scratchchin: This road flows nicely by virtue of its width. It also has a pretty decent cycle lane already along it. A high speed bus can hardly be good news for the cyclists here.

And we also here that the A6 at Swinton .. the one which was narrowed to provide a wide footpath and parking bays for the residents in the terraces/small semis along .. (engineered so in 2002-ish) will be re-engineered to provide a bus lane.


Um.. they already narrowed it for the footpaths/parkign bays and a cycle lane. So are they planning to dig up the bays and and the pavement to provide space for a bus lane.. as that's the only way they can do so and keep the arterial route of the historic A6.. as so lovingly described in a documentary by Greame Garden of the Goodies who happens to be a Lancastrian. :roll:

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 00:24 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 02:50
Posts: 2868
Location: Dorset
I've just had a thought. These bus only lanes are in effect taking away part of the public highway and reserving it for the use of private companies.
That's just not right.

_________________
Andrew.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 03:09 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 04:10
Posts: 3244
Why not ?
They may be "private", but they get a load of public cash....and rebated fuels...and new engine subsidy....
http://www.travel-manager.co.uk/fueldutyrebate.html

Quote:
Incentive Per Passenger

Our analysis covering the reform of BSOG to an Incentive Per Passenger examined three scenarios:

1. Scenario 1: IPP per passenger (unconstrained funding @ 11.2 pence per passenger);
2. Scenario 2: IPP with no rural safety net (unconstrained funding @ 11.2 pence per passenger) and
3. Scenario 3: IPP with rural safety net (constrained funding at 2005/06 levels @ 9.7 pence per passenger). We also considered the impact of additional funding in highly congested areas.

In the constrained funding scenarios, funding was limited to the current BSOG budget. In the 'rural safety net' scenarios, funding was top sliced from BSOG and reallocated to local authority tender budgets to allow the public sector to 'buy-back' services that commercial operators would other wise drop.


http://www.cfit.gov.uk/docs/2007/psbi/index.htm#cfit

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 09:18 
Offline
Supporter
Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 13:45
Posts: 4042
Location: Near Buxton, Derbyshire
Quote:
I've just had a thought. These bus only lanes are in effect taking away part of the public highway and reserving it for the use of private companies.
That's just not right.


Nothing wrong with a public subsidy of a private company if there is an overall benefit to society. Widely done.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 21:59 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
dcbwhaley wrote:
Quote:
I've just had a thought. These bus only lanes are in effect taking away part of the public highway and reserving it for the use of private companies.
That's just not right.


Nothing wrong with a public subsidy of a private company if there is an overall benefit to society. Widely done.



But in this case ..there isn't. If they are planning to remove a pavement and parking bays which they engineered at great expense only 5 years or so ago to make a bus lane which cyclists are expected to share.. then the residents, cyclists and pedestrians who are the council tax payers will not benefit at all. :roll:

If there is room for the lane.. fair enough. But why should drivers foot the bill? When this is something within the budget for road engineering already.

Oh.. and in return for a congestion charge .. will all the potholes be filled in?

No.. did not think so as they have a backlog to last them for years per the CTC. :popcorn:

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 21:56 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
MEN wrote:
New row over C-charge ad

28/11/2008


A NEW war of words has broken out between the two sides in the congestion charge battle after TV watchdogs ruled an advert on the controversial plan was biased in favour of the Yes Campaign.

The £230,000 ad, fronted by the former BBC presenter Martin Henfield, was broadcast by Granada between November 6 and 13 before being pulled when complaints arrived.

Ofcom yesterday ruled that the advert was ‘directed to a political end’ and ‘showed partiality as respects matters of political or industrial controversy or relating to current public policy’.

There were fears that the ad could lead to a referendum on the issue being scrapped.

Continue

But Sir Neil McIntosh, returning officer for the referendum, said the vote would continue as planned.

The ad was commissioned by Greater Manchester’s 10 councils and the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive. The councils are bidding for more than £2.75bn from the government’s Transport Innovation Fund, including £318m to set up the peak-hour, weekday charge. £1.2bn would be in the form of a loan, paid back over 30 years out of profits from the charge.

The all-postal referendum on the issue started this week and will close on December 11.
Ofcom investigators said the time allocated in the advert to the consequences of ‘yes’ and ‘no’ votes was ‘weighteding significantly towards the ‘yes’ result’.

“The presentation and tone of the consequences of the two outcomes was uneven,” they said. “We have concluded that the advertisement showed partiality as respects matters of political or industrial controversy or relating to current public policy.”

The watchdog also expressed concerns about a website set up by the councils and the GMPTE, which featured prominently on the ad. The site – www.gmfuturetransport.co.uk – provided ‘information on a matter of public controversy’ that was ‘partial in respect of the transport funding bid and the prospective congestion charge’, said Ofcom.

“The website contained material that was almost exclusively in support of the congestion charge and a ’yes’ vote,” it added.
Ofcom raised specific concerns about a page of press releases with titles such as ’Unions welcome TIF job injection’ and ’New research has revealed almost 10,000 new jobs could be created in Greater Manchester as a result of the TIF package’.

The site has since been changed, with the releases removed and new links to both ‘yes’ and ‘no’ campaigns.
There were fears the referendum would have to be scrapped because leaflets sent out with referendum ballot papers included a link to the website as a source of ‘further information’.

Planned

But Sir Neil McIntosh, returning officer for the referendum, said the vote would continue as planned.

“I understand that the Ofcom verdict, in as far as it relates to the website, refers mainly to items which had already been removed before the ballot papers were issued,” he said. “It does not reflect its current contents. I am advised that the website now includes links to the No and Yes campaigns which provide access to a range of contrasting viewpoints.”

A spokesman for the TIF bid stressed that the ruling - of a total of two breaches of the TV Advertising Code - was technically against Granada for showing the advert. But he said he was ’dismayed’ by Ofcom’s decision, branding it ‘unbalanced and unjustified’.
“The advert was professionally commissioned, the script was examined by leading counsel to ensure balance, and the final advert was approved by Clearcast, the independent body appointed by broadcasters,” he said.

But Graham Stringer, Labour MP for Manchester Blackley, agreed the vote should continue but said: “These materials, paid for by the taxpayer, clearly overstep every boundary in terms of bias.

“Misleading information is also now landing on doormats across Greater Manchester. How can we retain any level of trust in those behind this scheme, when they have so deliberately sought to distort the facts?”

Lis Phelan, chair of the ‘yes’ campaign, said: “The time has come for everybody to drop this obsession with adverts, websites and the wording of ballot papers. Let’s just get on and vote.”



A whopping 84% THINK this advert to be biased per a MEN poll.

Readers' letters to Bolton/Bury/Salford/Manchester/Wigan press seem to indicate objection to the charge.


My sisters, brother and family who live in this area report that shopkeepers are only too willing to display the NO posters and take up car stickers and badges to hand out. Customers in these shops also declare their opposition .. even if they do not drive :popcorn: as they foresee hike in prices at a time when they can ill afford such.

Many doubt the "improvements to public transport" Many worry it will go "over budget". Alll say the buses in peak rush hours are full already and are fairly punctual every 20 minutes. You cannot have more buses in reality else you have a "traffic jam of buses" :popcorn:

There are no plans to improve stations. Also you can only fit so many folding prams and wheelchairs on a bus. Cyclists cannot use the tram to Oldham whereas they could use the train. :roll:

In short .., it looks like a raw deal and a dead pup. Ill thought out and no one really knows what they are voting for .. other than a lame duck.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 03:18 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 04:10
Posts: 3244
If they vote yes, they will be voting to be charged for driving in and out of Manchester. The majority of the money will go to paying for the money to be collected. The council will spend a large proportion of the rest employing more staff to do less.

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 21:45 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
Quote:
MP defends his ‘late’ criticism of road charges
11:00am Tuesday 2nd December 2008

By Nick Lakeman »

A BOLTON MP has been criticised by his political rival for backing anti-congestion charge protesters just two weeks before a crucial transport referendum.

David Crausby, who represents Bolton North-east, said he had thrown his weight behind the “No campaign” because he feared low- paid workers would struggle to afford the predicted £5 daily charge to enter and leave Manchester at rush hour.

He also believes Bolton is not getting a fair share of the £2.7 billion being spent on public transport improvements in return for the charge.

Mr Crausby’s fellow Labour MPs in Bolton, Brian Iddon and Ruth Kelly, are in favour of the charge.

But Deborah Dunleavy, the Conservative’s prospective parliamentary candidate for Bolton North-east at the next general election, questioned Mr Crausby’s timing and accused him of being out of touch with his constituents.

Miss Dunleavy, who is also against the congestion charge, said: “I’m glad he’s saying No and has gone against a Government that is trying to impose a stealth tax on people, especially in these economic times.

“But I think he has failed in representing his constituents if he has only just realised, in the week of the ballot papers going out, that so many people are against it.”

Mr Crausby said: “It is a bit belated in joining the No lobby but this is not a view I have changed “My political opponents will want to use any opportunity to get them publicity but I have honestly come to the conclusion that, in the face of Government policy, that this is the right thing to do.

“Some people will wonder why I’m taking this position and in some quarters I may find myself unpopular. But my job is to represent the people of Bolton and when I look at the proposals, I don’t see any substantial benefits to Bolton.”

The transport innovation fund (TIF) referendum is currently under way.

Every person in Bolton eligible to vote should have received a ballot paper by last Friday.

The deadline for returning the completed ballot paper is December 11. The results are due to be announced the following day.

If at least seven out of the ten local authority areas in Greater Manchester return a majority of Yes votes, the TIF transport deal will be go ahead.




Family in Manchester have been busy. They have come across the odd "yes". Most are NO votes.

The Blue badge concession was mostly due to both of my sisters asking awkward questions and lobbying councillors.

BUT .. motability has age limits and carers who ferry blue badgers will face many hoops to recoup cash if ferrying to medical appointment. They also say medical appointments are exempt . but you have to prove the appointment.

Why should we? Explain where and why we travel. :furious:

What if the appointment is for an STD or HIV screening? Folk wnat PRIVACY on such matters. :furious:

The scheme does require a box to scan cars. So everyone from OUTSIDE the area might have to purchase one.

Ye GODS.. Manchester .. VOTE NO.

You will not get promises delivered. Since when has a politician delivered what was promised? Take a hard long look at the busted economy :wink:

Along with other broken promises. :popcorn: NHS comes to mind. Open heart massage on statistics by management. Medics do not submit nor succumb to disease of complacency that easily :wink:

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 08:40 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
Quote:
They also say medical appointments are exempt . but you have to prove the appointment.
Ye gods! I have loads of blood tests and appointments. Many of them are just arranged by phone or I have a bloods form without a date and time that I take to the vampires. I will be lobbying my mancoonian side of the family tonight!

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 21:36 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
My sisters are composing an acid response to this :yikes:

I would advise my sisters to include the following points

1. Football matches take place on Saturdays and Sundays and evening kick-offs if mid week

2. As such .. they are out of "congestion charge peak" and thus do not affect fans


3. Sir Alex's comments then have as much substance as his diarrhoea which he used as an excuse to speed illegally down a hard shoulder.

4. This is a selfish driver who wants a clear road to speed on .. and hire Loophole to argue mitigation for him.

He may know how to manage a football club successfully .. but as a driver and commuter .. he is the quintessential footballer thicky with more cash than common sense. :roll: .

MEN wrote:
Salford chief blasts Fergie
Yakub Qureshi
5/12/2008


SIR Alex Ferguson has come under fierce criticism from the owner of Salford City Reds for supporting the congestion charge.

The Manchester United manager said fans travelling to games would benefit from the investment in public transport, which would come in return for a peak-time charge for motorists.

But Reds' owner John Wilkinson said: "I can't see Sir Alex coming to the games by the tram from Altrincham or going to training at Carrington. It is all right to say these things, but you have got to get involved in it.

"I think it is a tax that the people of this area don't need. We should be able to get a better system without penalising people any more than they are now."

The £3bn proposal will set up new or improve existing bus, tram and train routes and will also mean the creation of two congestion charge zones around the M60 and city centre, with drivers paying up to £5 a day.

Penalised

Fares would be frozen on buses and low-paid workers would qualify for a 20 per cent discount.

In an open letter published in the M.E.N., Sir Alex said the plans offered `a once in a lifetime opportunity to put Greater Manchester in the Premier League for public transport - so don't score an own-goal'.

He cannot take part in the poll because he lives in Cheshire.

Mr Wilkinson's rugby club has a partnership with Peel Holdings, a major backer of the `No' campaign, in building a new stadium complex at Barton, Salford.

But Mr Wilkinson is also a close supporter of MP Hazel Blears, who has campaigned in favour of the changes.

The millionaire businessman last year donated £10,000 to the Salford MP's unsuccessful campaign to become Labour's deputy leader.

Last night, officials overseeing the postal referendum revealed 30 per cent of voters had responded so far.

Tameside residents have been the quickest to have their say, with 37 per cent having returned their papers.

The turnout rate so far was next best in Trafford and Bury (36pc), Oldham and Stockport (34pc), Rochdale (30pc), Salford (29pc), Bolton (28pc) and Wigan (27pc).

The worst response has been in Manchester, were only 23pc of voters have responded.

There is now less than a week to return ballot papers, which have been sent to 1.9m voters in the 10 Greater Manchester councils.

The bid would mean more than £2.75bn being ploughed into transport schemes, including £318m to set up a peak hour, weekday-only congestion charge. Of this total, £1.2bn would be in the form of a loan, paid back over 30 years out of profits from the charge.

Why Edinburgh said No


Fergie backs C-charge



As my family say. buses run each 20 minutes to the main towns. They use the train/bus off peak when it's cheaper. They also say the under a fiver peak charge on the train is reasonable.

The problem lies in "sardine packing" from 7 am to 10 am. on all modes of public transport.. plus zero plans for the disabled in reality. Jazz got the concession on Blue badges by pinning council leaders to conceding this necessity.

BUT .. an over 80 year old and under 17 year old .. do not qualify for Motablity recognition (and Ju-Ju has the experience from her son being aged just two years when he lost legs to an attack of meningitis. :roll:) .. and Jazz from caring for an over 80 year old relative.)

Their cars are not recognised as belonging to "registered disabled" per ANPR data. They would have to fill in umpteen forms here. :roll:

Also , an exemption if a hospital appointment. What if for HIV/STD screening?


Why should anyone have to disclose why they have any medical appointment .. :furious: It intrudes on privacy :banghead:

By the way.. only 20% voted.

VOTE .,,. if you want to vote YES .. then DO. If you want to vote NO.. then DO.

The RIGHT to vote was hard fought for by working class males.. and the suffragettes .. and plenty died for democratic rights since 1914. :popcorn:

So .. folk of Manchester 10 boroughs ..

you OWE your forebears who were Tolpuddle Martyrs and Suffrragettes . (Pankurst women of Manchester .. whom I do admire as they fought for basic rights as human beings)


and your soldiers to date who have fought and given lives to allow you these rights to vote.

SO .. VOTE. Read each argument for ./. each argument against. Weigh up .. decide .. but VOTE as this is a very important decision which you will be making here.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 18:09 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
This is a pretty pointed blog posting about the Con Charge. (Warning: strong language from the start :P)

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:23 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
:rotfl:


I have to admit I enjoyed reading that.


Durham does have a "congestion" charge - but this is just restricted to a handful of streets and is more aimed at trying to protect the old architecture there. It's more or less a nominal fee and nothing like London - nor ideed the plans for Manchester.


I think that if you have to incur this charge if you work within the zone - but would not incur it if you worked in any other part of Greater Manchester and given this charge is one imposed on you - then maybe the Manchester workforce should try to claim this as an "allwowable expense" - an seek to claw it back by opff-setting agains direct income tax? :popcorn:


Worth a consider? You need to chat to an accountant who will know about such " legal loopholes" :popcorn:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 16:38 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 00:42
Posts: 310
Location: North West England
One of the yes campaign posters beggars belief. It features an oldish chap saying I'm voting yes because the buses will be safer. So no emotional blackmail or trying to frighten public transport users into a yes vote then. It's appallingly cynical. Not to mention that making public transport safe should not have to rely on an extra tax on car drivers. It has got nothing to do with congestion, it's a fundamental right to be safe. Shame on them all :x

Barkstar

_________________
The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 13:41 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manc ... 778110.stm

Ha, Ha!

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 14:34 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
malcolmw wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7778110.stm

Ha, Ha!

And 78.8% voted against, with every borough well over 2 to 1.

A very decisive victory and a triumph for true people power :clap1:

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 14:49 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 15:30
Posts: 643
Quote:
And 78.8% voted against, with every borough well over 2 to 1.

A very decisive victory and a triumph for true people power


Or so you might think... But this from The Times:

Quote:
The low response to the referendum indicates that the Labour-controlled councils promoting the scheme failed to persuade many non car-owners and public transport users that it was worth voting. By contrast, the “no” campaigners succeeded in getting a very large proportion of car-dependent commuters to vote against the scheme.


seems to indicate that "they" think that they only lost because the people who wanted to vote yes to congestion charging didn't bother. Why do I get the feeling that this is going to be forced through anyway, but now without the public transport improvements?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 15:39 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border
Just apply the same logic to General Election results.

Neue Arbeit only won with a small percentage of the overall electorate. Just those who could be bothered to vote, huh? Those who wanted to vote against Liebour "didn't bother".

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 16:49 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
How much money have the Government wasted tryingto drag people in a direction they quite clearly do not want to go? :oops: :hoppingmad:

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 20:04 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 21:15
Posts: 699
Location: Belfast
:gatso2: I suspected that within minutes of the massive :listenup:NO! vote being announced, the :bunker: Yes camp would put all their lies and spin to work. Don't be complacent. I think they'll try again.

"How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?"

"Four"

"And if the party says it is not four-but five, then how many?"


George Orwell, 1984.

_________________
Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 20:15 
Offline
Supporter
Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 13:45
Posts: 4042
Location: Near Buxton, Derbyshire
Quote:
A very decisive victory and a triumph for true people power


Or a very good illustration why democracy is a cr@p system. A decisive victory for the self centered motoring lobby and a tragic loss of the opportunity for Manchester to have a really good public transport network .

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 116 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.141s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]