Safe Speed Forums

Which then brings us to the 'Right to a hearing' issue

which could makes things worse- if they operate anything like traffic wardens expect to be done for travelling 0.1 mph over the limit, fined for "offences" with no evidence, have no right at all to a trial, all conducted by parasites on commision.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

How would they enforce the decriminalised aspect? They would have no legal access to vehicle registration databases for non-law-enforcement purposes.

In the same way as the authorities have access to the databases for decriminalised parking enforcement.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

What about the thousands of vehicles that are "in the trade", and have inaccurate registered keepers. (and the thousands that are not "in the trade" and have inaccurate registered keepers )

They don't AFAIK.

Unless the ticket is afixed to your windscreen by the parking enforcement official then there is nothing they can do, having witnessed a parking violation. Unlike police officers (and I believe police traffic wardens) who can track you down by your registration.

If our details are being divulged by DVLA on request, other than for law-enforcement purposes, I would suspect it breaches data protection.

Gp to pepipoo's parking forum. Civil parking enforcement can obtain info for about £2.50 per registration iirc. DPA not considered.

Even if that is so (which I would hope was illegal), they still can't ticket you unless they afix the ticket before you drive off. Are the decriminalised speed enforcers going to chase speeders on motorbikes and afix tickets to their moving vehicles?

A lot of the tickets at pepipoo are cctv tickets.

In decriminalised parking schemes?

I think that would be ugly and unpleasant, but I also think it would be an awful lot safer than things are presently. And the authorities would find it even harder to defend. I'd definitely class it as a move in the right direction.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yes TFL enforce by CCTV.

But the main ones seem to be Civil parking enforcement. Private companies contracted to enforce a time limit in a car park (particularly large trading estate areas). Also petrol stations search for wild bean cafe on pepipoo

Private parking - Civil traffic enforcement notice

Did you see the bit about DVLA guidelines and afixing a notice to the vehicle?

Thought not.

I saw the DVLA bit and affixing the ticket. I am just showing that what should be done and what is being done are two entirely different things.

I think there's a bit of confusion between decriminalised parking enforcement and civil parking enforcement.

Civil parking enforcement covers stuff like supermarket overstays, service station parking etc... These guys DO NOT need to stick a ticket on your car and often prosecute entirely via CCTV. Being private companies you would maybe expect them not to be able to source your details from the DVLA - well you would be wrong, they can and do get these details with consumate ease.

Decriminalised parking involves the schemes the councils now run on our public roads. These are the guys that do have to put the ticket on your car (except if it's a copper doing it, IIRC) and they have as ready access to the DVLA database as the police do.

In my opinion, dealing with councils and the like directly under a decriminalised scheme is far more fun than having the risk of court hanging over your head - and if decriminalised speeding is run anything like the parking schemes we have now, fighting and avoiding fines will be utterly trivial as the authorities are completely incapable of following guidelines themselves.

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Carl Prescott

Thanks CarlP that is what I have been trying to say, very poorly

The trouble is we are told to follow the rules/law. But the agencies/councils etc. do not know the rules/laws well enough to enforce them properly or choose to bend/break them when it suits them.

"They" say ignorance of the law is no defense. When you get wise to the law they throw their dummies out of the pram not.

Steady on a minute, there is some misinformation here:

Council "decriminalised" parking carries the full weight of the state against offenders, is legally enforcable, and is basically the criminal law under a different name.

Enforcement by private companies is best summed up as a scam: there are very few known cases of people getting taken to court, and none in normal circumstances. The DVLA will release registered keepers details to anyone, whether guidelines are followed or not, but this does not mean these tickets are actually enforceable.

Both types are routinely detected by CCTV, the DVLA guidelines mean less than nothing.

I suppose you could say that, but it's a law without a criminal penalty, and that's the important thing. Well, that and the fact you have no real recourse through the legal system and instead have to follow a convoluted procedure involving a party that can in no way be described as disinterested (see PATAS).

Actually, now I've typed that out, it is pretty much the same as the summary justice system.


Do you have any examples of parking offences under the decriminalised parking scheme that were prosecuted by CCTV?

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Carl Prescott

It's only used in some areas, but here's the first two I found.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=20082
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=20356

In which case I stand corrected, I didn't realise any local authorities were doing this yet, thanks!

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Carl Prescott