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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 17:50 
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Motorist launches 'hidden' speed sign test case

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Test case: Businessman John Coombes
was enraged when he was found guilty
and fined for speeding in a 30mph zone

A motorist has launched a High Court test case challenge which could force local highway authorities to clean up their act over maintaining roadside speed limit signs.

Businessman John Coombes was enraged when he was found guilty and fined for speeding in a 30mph zone - even though an overgrown hedge meant he could not see a signpost warning of the restriction.

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He described the fine - "my first speeding fine in 32 years of driving" - as "highway robbery". He said outside the High Court in London: "What's the point in paying council tax if they don't cut the bloody hedge? I have not got x-ray vision going down the road."

Mr Coombes, from Wells, Somerset, was caught in a police speed trap when he exceeded 30 mph on the B3139 Bath Road at Horrington near Wells while driving home from work about 5pm on July 4 2005.

He was convicted of speeding by Mendip magistrates in January this year and fined £250 and ordered to pay £150 legal costs.

At Bristol Crown Court, both conviction and fine were upheld in a 2-1 majority decision in April, and he was ordered to pay a further £229 legal costs.

Today his counsel, James Cranfield, argued at the High Court that the crown court had gone wrong in law.

Mr Coombes said he had been driving home in bright sunshine and the overgrown hedges at the side of the road meant he had not seen any roadside signs. Haze from the sunlight also meant he did not see two 30 mph roundels painted on the road's surface.

He was aware of going over rumble strips but thought they were a warning of a bend in the road ahead.

Mr Cranfield showed Lord Justice Keene and Mr Justice Walker photographs taken by Mr Coombes revealing how it was impossible to see the nearside sign when driving from a 40mph stretch of road into the 30 mph zone.

He argued that, under the 1984 Road Traffic Regulations Act, a local highway authority with responsibility for roads in its area was under a duty to erect and maintain traffic signs on those roads.

If a sign was obscured, it could not be said the road was adequately signed, said Mr Cranfield. Therefore Mr Coombes should not have been found guilty of a speeding offence under the 1984 Road Traffic Act.

But Kerry Barker, appearing for the Director of Public Prosecutions, disagreed. He argued the conviction was unassailable because the signs themselves - even though one was admittedly obscured - were perfectly valid under the 1984 Act.

Technically they were "appropriate, of the correct height and shape, and in the correct place". Mr Coombes should have seen the one, on the offside of the road, that was not obscured.

"Only one sign has to be seen for there to be a lawful speeding conviction", he told the judges. Lord Justice Keene said the court would put its judgment in writing as "this case may be of importance to a wider audience than those in court today."

Outside court, Mr Coombes said that the overgrown hedgerow had obscured not only the speed limit signpost but also other signs, including one warning drivers of a school ahead.

He said: "Lots of other drivers were caught at that spot the same day. It has cost me quite a few thousand quid fighting this.

"It should have been taken up by motoring organisations, but I am having to do it as a point of principle."

Adding to Mr Coombes's exasperation is the knowledge that another motorist succeeded in overturning a speeding fine at Bristol Crown Court in a case apparently similar to his.

Anthony Hemmings, 52, from Bromley Heath, Bristol, successfully argued that a £60 fine was unlawful because a 50mph sign had been hidden behind a tree branch.


I don't know if this is over at PePiPoo I can't get on their site from work?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 18:51 
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What if the offside sign was obstructed by a truck passing in the opposite direction? Should people really be looking out at the other side of the road rather than where they are going? If they are entering a 30 theres likely to be other hazards more deserving of their attention on their own side of the road!

I have seen several nearside signs turned at 90 degrees recently, perhaps as a dodge by motorists caught speeding? By the time I realise there is a 'defaced' sign there and look to the other side for the limit it can be too late, and if there were SPECS cameras on the area I would be compelled to adopt 30mph to be 'safe' (from conviction) until the limit changes or there are repeaters (which there wouldn't be if there was street lighting).


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 20:32 
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I happen to remember the area in question as I used to live there for a few years a while back. Anyway, I'm not sure that the driver has much defence as he was caught at a location near to where he lives - so the court will likely just say well you know the place and so you should know what the speed limit is.

Unless of course the speed limit has been extended out a bit with new signs not being visible or something like that.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 01:30 
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madroaduser wrote:
Anyway, I'm not sure that the driver has much defence as he was caught at a location near to where he lives - so the court will likely just say well you know the place and so you should know what the speed limit is.


Well, the court might say that, but it is absolutely not what the law says.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 09:25 
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Mr Coombes said he had been driving home in bright sunshine and the overgrown hedges at the side of the road meant he had not seen any roadside signs. Haze from the sunlight also meant he did not see two 30 mph roundels painted on the road's surface.

He was aware of going over rumble strips but thought they were a warning of a bend in the road ahead.


I think he will be found guilty. It's pushing credibility a bit that he missed the signs, two roundels in the road and a rumble strip. How many rumble strips do you know that warn of bends?

There is a technical argument that because of the obscured sign the limit is not vaild but courts seem to ignore technical defences (i.e. the law!) more and more these days

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:17 
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We have rumble strips before a school crossing.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:29 
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The way I read the law is that the terminal sings must be in place and reflective and lit if they are on a principle raod within 50m of a street light. There must be regular repeaters at the side. roundals on the tarmac do not come into it.

I dont see that a sign can be reflective if it is obscured.

also if it is in the hedge they are usually covered in green film
TRSG is very technical. signs such as speed limits are "permitted variation=none"



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(3) The prescribed methods of illumination are

(a) the use of 14 circular reflectors of the corner cube type, each reflector having a diameter of 22 millimetres;

(b) the use of retroreflecting material extending over the whoe surface of the sign;

(c) the use of a single circular reflector of the corner cube type extending over the whole surface of the sign;

(d) the use of reflectors consisting of bi-convex lenses extending over the whole surface of the sign; and

(e) the use of a single rectangular reflector of the corner cube type extending over the whole surface of the sign.

not a street lamp

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:39 
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malcolmw wrote:
I think he will be found guilty. It's pushing credibility a bit that he missed the signs, two roundels in the road and a rumble strip. How many rumble strips do you know that warn of bends?

If the nearside sign is obscured by vegetation and a high-sided vehicle tracked the offside sign as he approached it he would have seen neither. I can believe he didn't see the painted roundels because the sun reflecting off a wet road can mask even white lines you know are there.

As for rumble strips at bends - many sharp bends in Cornwall, Devon and Somerset have rumble strips on the approach - so if the limit change was near a corner it would be reasonable to interpret the rumble strips as bend-related.

malcolmw wrote:
There is a technical argument that because of the obscured sign the limit is not vaild but courts seem to ignore technical defences (i.e. the law!) more and more these days

Since speeding is a technical offence a technical defence seems highly appropriate. The law requires two terminal signs unless there is street lighting - when the "default" speed limit is 30mph. So if Horrington has street lights where this chap was pinged more than the prescribed distance from the last 40 repeater, he hasn't got a leg to stand on. Otherwise, the 30 limit should not be enforceable and he should be aquitted and awarded costs.

Unfortunately, I've just checked TSRGD and AFAICT speed limit signs are only required to be visible to drivers when they are at a junction of roads having different speed limits. Schedule 19 part II clauses 8 and 9 refer. This is crazy because as long as the signs are in place it seems they can be hidden. :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 18:27 
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malcolmw wrote:
How many rumble strips do you know that warn of bends?

They're all for bends or roundabouts around here.
I do find them rather annoying in that they make me want to go faster... :roll:

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