Safe Speed Forums

On Monday next week John Sargent presents the first of a two part series about driving issues.
The first one features, what appears to be, his prejudice against 4x4s and the second the 'dangers' of drivers over 70.
What the heck is it with these program makers? All we're going to hear (I'm sure), is a load of spiteful nonsense dished out by those who appear unable to tolerate people who aren't the same as them and don't make the same choices as them.
Now, if we were to have a program about government road safety policy, querying why we are still losing 3500 or so of our citizens each year in spite of millions of pounds in automated fines, maybe that would be worth watching.

It is incredibly frustrating that a programme like this is to be broadcast one week after official figures show that road deaths are NOT getting better. It'll never happen, but wouldn't the BBC be better off examining the reasons and solutions for this lack of progress not pointlessly being sanctimonious about 4x4's and drivers doing more than 70?

Presumably, their argument against 4x4's will target Cayenne / Toareg / ML / GL drivers etc and conveniently gloss over the fact that many normal cars are 4 wheel drive these days.

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Simon

I met some of the producers of this programme back in October. We talked about cameras and safety. They didn't seem very interested. I never filmed with them. At the time is was a three parter, I don't know if that has changed or not...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

A 4x4 in rural setting .. no problem

A 4x4 in urban setting / driven by savvy "COAST-y" type normal driver.. no problem

Astute 70 year old.. no problem. Today's 70 year olds are quite fit and even surpass the youngsters in astuteness at times. Some are not. so we cannot generalise completely

But we lose 3500 each year because they do not COAST.. do not apply common sense.. over-indulge in drink and drugs.. understimate fatigue and fitness to drive.. have unrealistic targets to meet..


We also have a problem with basic manners and courtesy too

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I am afraid that the media are all about praying on prejudice, not trying to disprove it.

Like politics, the news is becoming a cesspool of bandwagon issues.

I don't bother reading newspapers anymore, It winds me up too much. Since every TV news item has to show a polar ice cap melting or some prat growing cabbages in his back garden to combat global warming I don’t watch the news on tv much either.

And as for hard hitting expose' journalism.....well they are just toothless ass-kissers.

Is it just me or does anyone else think those parents were criminally negligent in leaving their 3 kids alone in a hotel room in Portugal..... Its a very sad story but come on......would you have done that? The news seems to have skirted around that little issue.

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Speed camera policy Kills

i expect 4x4's are killing so many more people that the "benefit" of cameras hasn't been realised... i shouldn't say that out loud should I?

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Feel free to say it out loud. It's well worth exploring. But I have and there is NO WAY that it's true.

- The growth of 4x4s started before we lost the trend
- In other countries the growth of 4x4s hasn't caused a trend loss
- we're looking for around 1/3rd of fatal crashes in the trend loss. If (more than) 1/3rd of fatal crashes now included a 4x4 that would be absolutely obvious.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

i was thinking in terms of government propbullgandaspeak than tangible reality- i've been involved in 4 prangs in 4 years in my SUV- once i tapped a nissan that pulled forward then decided to stop on a roundabout just as i glanced right- the other 3 occasions were people failing to observe the 6&half foot tall honking great suv before they ploughed into it- twice i was stationary and once when a skoda tried to carve me up

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Also forgetting there is a huge range of 4x4s

ranging from the fiat panda 4x4 to impreza's, compact 4x4s (x-trail, CRV, Rav, etc) then the bigger stuff like the X5, landy's and rangey's.

The image people have is a range rover capable of 18mpg. However, plenty of 4x4s do over 40mpg and take the same amount of space as a volvo estate.

I bought one for my wife, because it was comfy, economical and had a high driving position. The outgoing car was a volvo that was slower and did less mpg

Did take it green laning though

Yeah, because reminding them of that would be really helpful, wouldn't it.

Of course you have never done anything stupid have you. Apart from this post, perhaps.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Just because some fkwit in a VW 4x4 decided to park a gnat's-willy's breadth from the side of my gf's brand new car in an almost empty carpark and proceed to open his door straight into it, denting the wheel-arch, whilst I was stood right there no less, doesn't mean that all 4x4 drivers are inconsiderate ononists, but it doesn't help that perception. Nor does the chap last night in a Landy who decided to sit a similar distance from my rear bumper, before overtaking in the face of oncoming traffic and pull in before he had passed me.

I still manage to take each driver on their individual merits, but I could sympathise with those that may not. When the potential for inconveniencing/damaging others increases (such as with an increased vehicle size) so does the perceived seriousness of any transgressions I would suspect.

Still, I doubt this is the angle the BBC will take; they're far more likely to focus on the carbon footprint of such vehicles (obviously the footprint is deeper coz they're heavier, innit). We'll get some self-rigteous green hippy pseudo-scientist spouting nonsense about how making it more expensive for these vehicles to access the road will stop the planet from imploding, and suggest that we all run 2CVs powered by the soy we can all grow in our windowboxes.

You know it’s a funny thing.

I have got three daughters, all grown up now. But I can honestly say that I have NEVER EVER left them on there own locked in a room un-supervised. But then again maybe I have got my priorities all screwed up and I should have left them in a hotel room while me and the misses went out on our own. Strange thing is that option never even crossed my mind.

When it comes to children you can never afford to make a ”mistake”.

Like I said I am sorry for what has happened. Bu the there is also something odd about all this and I don’t think the full story has yet emerged.

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Speed camera policy Kills

I'm ambivalent about 4x4s. And I agree that we surely have had enough polemics about them. It not unlike the amount of hot air and politicians time expended over fox hunting. Though can anyone enlighten me as to why you'd choose one if you intend to spend all day at 90+mph in lane 3 struggling to get 20mpg? And why are the new Range Rovers as tall as a Transit van?

There have been some good programmes on road issues, mainly radio, File on 4 did a good one on our cheap and dangerous road surfaces a year or so ago, the recent one on speed cameras was pretty even handed. The Channel 4 doc on the A46 was well done - and interestingly, unless they were carefully selective, the disparate incidents shown didn't give any clue as to why it's such a dangerous road - they could have happened anywhere. Some years ago there was a programme that had a good go at the cameras effectiveness, Channel 4 I think. But I do agree that now we've had large numbers of cameras for some time and many many opinions - professional and otherwise - there is the need for a programme on the subject, or even better one for and one against.

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

don't quite know how I managed to do that ... duplicate post now removed.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Interestingly enough, that's not a good solution any more:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/sci/tech/6650743.stm

Sort of supports the Gaia hypothesis, well, the "finely balanced ecosystem" part of it anyway. Too much carbon, so grow more fuel crops. Not enough space to grow food, so food prices go up.

Hang on a minute, though, haven't we suffered from food overproduction - the ridiculous food "mountains" in Europe recently, back as long ago as WW2 we had people being paid not to grow alfalfa (thanks to Joseh Heller in Catch 22 for that one)?

Nuclear power is now emerging as the "green" fuel as regarded by some people. How times change!!

http://travelsearch.timesonline.co.uk/a ... _1,00.html

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

likewise, although my oldest has just turned 5, also a boy approaching 4.


same here, and I wouldn't.

My point is that blaming these parents at this time helps no-one.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

In the same way we do not blame parents who let their children play unsupervised by the side of a busy road when they are are hit by a car.

The are not to BLAME as they did not "make" it happen but I believe they were wrong to leave young children alone in that way.

The law on abandonment is very difficult to prove but it has been suggested that they could be guilty of this offence in one newspaper.

I would like to see the law inproved to clearly define what you can and canot do to leave young children unsupervised.

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Speed camera policy Kills

FFS - can you not see that simply makes you part of the problem that is the cause of this site's existence?

Whilst I can see where Gizmo is coming from, I have to agree with Observer.
Less legislation is needed: but what there is should be well thought out and intelligently implemented and enforced.

Encourage responsibility, not living by numbers.

That could be a good slogan for this campaign

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed