Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sun Apr 26, 2026 17:45

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 22:12 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 766747.ece

Quote:
Driver on mobile jailed for two years
Russell Jenkins

A single mother of four, one of whom is disabled, has been jailed for two years for killing an 80-year-old pedestrian while using her mobile phone at the wheel of her 4x4.

Anne Foster-Chia, 44, was not concentrating on the traffic when she failed to stop her Toyota Rav4 at a junction, collided with another vehicle and spun into Dorothy Andrews, hurling her 15 yards.

Foster-Chia had denied that she was using her mobile phone at the time but was found guilty at Sheffield Crown Court of causing death by dangerous driving.

Sentencing her, Judge Robert Moore said that he would have been more lenient if she had accepted her guilt from the start instead of lying.

He told her: “You told the police, jury and presumably yourself, and repeated to me, that you knocked the phone to the floor. The jury disbelieved you and so do I.”

At an earlier hearing the jury was told that the collision happened in December 2005 when Foster-Chia tried to cross a main road in Sheffield on the way to collect her ten-year-old autistic son from school for a hospital appointment.

Judge Moore said yesterday: “There is no doubt the phone rang. It was your joiner, although you thought it was the school.”

Michael Slater, for the prosecution, said: “The defendant failed to stop and give way at the junction because she was paying more attention to her telephone rather than keeping a proper lookout for the traffic conditions.”

Mobile phone records show that no calls were made or answered at the time of the collision. However, Lisa Timms, another motorist, said that she had seen the 4x4 shortly before the accident travelling at some speed with Foster-Chia’s head and shoulder tilted as if supporting a phone.

She said: “After the collision I saw her holding the phone up to her ear. I could see the phone at that time and she was talking at that moment. That was straight away after the collision but both cars had stopped.”

Mrs Andrews had been on her way to visit Jean Tallents, her widowed sister, who lived alone. In a witness impact statement, Mrs Tallents said: “Dorothy visited me every day. She was my lifeline. I have still not come to terms with the loss. I am so lonely, so heartbroken.”

Simon Myers, for the defence, said that his client was under enormous pressure looking after a severely disabled son. When the telephone rang, she may have thought it was the school saying her son had had another fit, he said. “She must have been thoroughly worn out,” he said.

Foster-Chia was also banned from driving for two years.

Note the comments. Now it may very well be that going through a red light and killing a pedestrian does fully justify a causing death by dangerous driving charge, but there was no conclusive proof she was actually using her mobile.

Quote:
"Mobile phone records show that no calls were made or answered at the time of the collision."

So how can she be convicted of using her phone? One witness's word is given more weight in court than phone records? Seems strange to me.

Alison, Falkirk, UK

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 23:29 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
Surely it does not matter whether she was using her phone or not!

I have said from the moment this law was proposed that it was unnecessary. You're either driving carelessly/dangerously or not! The cause does not matter; you could be changing channel on the radio, until they ban those in cars, and it'd still be careless/dangerous! The danger comes from chosing an imappropriate moment to do so, and on some journies, there may never be an appropriate moment, so pull over, or don't do it!

The mobile issue is a red herring, no doubt pushed by the powers that promoted the unnecessary law in an effort at social engineering and popularity cultivation. The woman killed someone whilst driving, and it is my opinion that anyone who does so without extenuating circumstances should be guilty of manslaughter.

I do feel for her domestic situation, and that of her kids, but the overarching lesson here should be that taking charge of a vehicle is not a task to be taken lightly. It comes with the utmost reponsibility, and should be subject to the highest feasible levels of training, assessment and guidance; which is why my blood boils at the oversimplified "speed kills" or "mobile driving kills" messages! These are not the causes of danger, but sometimes the symptoms of an incorrect attitude or even lack of understanding/skill!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:25 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:33
Posts: 770
Location: Earith, Cambs
Looked at more closely, the sentance does seem very harsh. As has been said, there is no evidence that she was engaged in a phone conversation. Indeed, her phone records show that she was not and they are likely to be 100% accurate.
She made a driving error, as we all do from time-to-time. Unfortunately hers led to an accident, as happens sometimes. However, the accident had a fatal result.
She did not set out to drive dangerously, there was no prior intent and she is just an ordinary wife and mother who made a mistake with a sad result. It could happen to any of us.
Is 2 years inside an appropriate result? Compared to other sentances, maybe not. The thug who hit a pensioner and caused him to lose the sight in one eye didn't get prison at all.
The real suffers here are her children. One might think that a community service order, a suspended prison term, a fine and a ban would have been most appropriate. Maybe it's just an emotive issue which has caused the harsh result. One would hope not.
It could happen to any of us on any day when we take our cars out.
Is she going to appeal the result? She certainly should.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 13:39 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
I read the same report and more or less came to the same conclusions.
It seams that the standards of evidence are now that you own a mobile, send them to jail.

I am also watching the portsmouth ferry case with morbid interest. It apears the ferry and the yacht were in the same location at the same time. at some time the yacht sunk. therefore the ferry must have done it.

that is a mighty leap of justice!
To my mind, as the yacht has not been recovered, the keel might have snapped off, the enging might have blown up or they might have capsised.
There is no proof that the ferry sunk the yacht.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:18 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:33
Posts: 770
Location: Earith, Cambs
We do seem to be moving towards a 'vengeance' culture in cases of genuine accidents, caused by momentary lapses of concentration which result in a death.
In the case of this lady, if ther had been no injuries, would she have been charged with Dangerous Driving? If not, then she should not have been charged with 'Causing Death by DD'.
It's clear she was very careless, but at what point does that become 'Dangerous' under the act? If one is overtaking, comes to some double white lines approaching the brow of a hill and decide to continue the overtake on the wrong side, then that, clearly, is 'Dangerous Driving' even if no RTC occurs. A fatal in such circumstances would be 'Causing Death by DD'. However, in this case the evidence we have read would seem to show lack of care and attention - a momentary lapse - a bit of poor driving. The fact that someone was killed, whilst very tragic, does not change the cause of the death to DD.
Personally I feel very sorry for her and, especially, for her children who must wonder why their mummy has been taken from them for at least 12 months. Is this what justice has become in this country, vengeful and spiteful? What will a prison term do for anyone in this case except screw up the lives of her children?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:51 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 09:59
Posts: 3544
Location: Shropshire
Cooperman wrote:
We do seem to be moving towards a 'vengeance' culture in cases of genuine accidents, caused by momentary lapses of concentration which result in a death.


Are we? Or are we moving towards a situation where people have been told enough times not to use their mobile phone whilst driving that the time has come to start punishing them if they refuse to listen and then cause a crash?

_________________
Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:05 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
How are we 'moving towards' a vengeance culture? Have we not always demanded that those who cause the death of others through illegal actions or negligence be punished? In our not so ancient history we utilised the death penalty!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:17 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 22:02
Posts: 3266
There suddenly seams to be a shift of balance, the need to add a mobile phone into the story to get a bigger punishment. The need to say it was a 4x4....

4x4 + a mobile phone.... Instantly guilty!

Where were these righteous people when the faulty maintenance of points and signals caused a rail crash? Were the managers in charged and sentenced?

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:21 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 19:50
Posts: 3369
Location: Lost in the Wilderness
Rigpig wrote:
Cooperman wrote:
We do seem to be moving towards a 'vengeance' culture in cases of genuine accidents, caused by momentary lapses of concentration which result in a death.


Are we? Or are we moving towards a situation where people have been told enough times not to use their mobile phone whilst driving that the time has come to start punishing them if they refuse to listen and then cause a crash?


If she was using a mobile when this accident happened then she deserves all she gets however, according to the above article there were no records of the mobile being used at the time of the accident. :? I feel the article needs clarification.

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 13:42 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 09:59
Posts: 3544
Location: Shropshire
Dixie wrote:
I feel the article needs clarification.


True, I was generalising, my bad.
We never have enough information from these news story clippings to make an informed judgement; we'll always be filling in a few gaps.

_________________
Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 14:59 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:47
Posts: 1511
Location: West Midlands
Rigpig wrote:
Cooperman wrote:
We do seem to be moving towards a 'vengeance' culture in cases of genuine accidents, caused by momentary lapses of concentration which result in a death.


Are we? Or are we moving towards a situation where people have been told enough times not to use their mobile phone whilst driving that the time has come to start punishing them if they refuse to listen and then cause a crash?
People have been told a lot of times not to do a lot of things, but unfortunately, possibly there are too many things outlawed now. Personally, I have no problems with using my mobile (hand-held or otherwise) whilst in the car, but I also have no sympathy for someone who causes an accident whilst using one!

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 15:02 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
Thats the point BB, we don't need legislation against mobile driving, we need legislation against inattentive driving. The two are not always the same thing!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 15:06 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:47
Posts: 1511
Location: West Midlands
RobinXe wrote:
Thats the point BB, we don't need legislation against mobile driving, we need legislation against inattentive driving. The two are not always the same thing!

Totally agree! There still remains the offences of DWDCA and DD which quite readily cover all manner of stupid driving.

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 15:34 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 01:48
Posts: 526
Location: Netherlands
BottyBurp wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
Thats the point BB, we don't need legislation against mobile driving, we need legislation against inattentive driving. The two are not always the same thing!

Totally agree! There still remains the offences of DWDCA and DD which quite readily cover all manner of stupid driving.

Ahh, the voice of common sense.
I totally agree with both of you.

Personally, I get the feeling that "society" in the UK is getting more and more over-nannyed (is that a verb?) and over-legislated. And far too many jobsworths (bring back Esther Rantzen and the That's Life team, they'd sort them all out!).
All resulting in this type of (IMHO) disproportionate/misplaced reaction.

Mention mobile-phones or 4x4s (etc.) and a certain vociferous section of this "society" gets all hysterical, making unsubstantiated assumptions and reaching conclusions that are not founded in fact.

More restrictions are then placed on everybody's lifestyle, and the baby is thrown out with the bathwater.

_________________
p.s. I am still absolutely floored by Paul's death. May 2008 be the greatest ever for SafeSpeed. His spirit lives on.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 39 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.020s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]