Safe Speed Forums

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

"Even minor infringements, such as moving briefly into a cycle lane to pass a vehicle turning right,"

If they're going to be that petty then they can forget about drivers making room for emergency vehicles pass.

Do they realise that drivers can stop within advanced stop lines in some circumstances? If they are going to run it as cluelessly/fraudently as with yellow boxes then the whole thing will eventually collapse.

It's obvious to me that they're just looking for any excuse to clobber the motorist.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

Yeah. The word of the day is: spiteful.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It has worked for 'safety' cameras, right?



And I wonder why that is. Not related to cash by any chance?

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www.misspelled-signs.com - A tribute to illiterate signwriters.

I can't locate the thread which, I seem to remember, discussed the difference between cycle lanes with dashed lines, solid lines etc. and the legality of motorists driving into them. Does anyone know where this is?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

This confused me



Can anyone explain why having cameras there will help women more than men? Is this just an attempt to reel the pro-fem gang in on the idea?

This one?

Will they put so much emphasis on this if it was the other way round, where cycle lanes are provided and cyclists use the roads instead? This whole scenario of using road safety as a means to clobber the motorist is becoming a complete and utter joke and, it’s about time it all came to a head. There are plenty of other things to look out for without worrying about straying into a cycle lane. Also I don’t have the time to be looking for ways out of not paying a ticket or fine for stupid laws, which is what they rely on.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

So lets organise it then. Lets get it to a critical mass and get it to kickstart.

For far too long forums have become just talking shops where no action is ever taken.
We can whinge about this as much as we want, but until we make a stand and get some proper protests going nothing will ever change and the hateful, spiteridden shitheads that come up with these plans for "us" will continue coming up with ever more invasive and grandiose schemes designed to hit only one road user; you and me.
We dont need to understand their motives, theyre driven purely by hate and by their own ideas of a pedestrian utopia where we pay for them.
Until drivers of all persuasions wake up and actually mobilise themselves into a force to be reckoned with, expect more of the same.
Talking dosent work when the people youre talking with dont listen and this lot have never listened to us at all. When they get found out they simply change the rules. Enoughs enough.
Theyve done it in the courts with their guilty over innocent stealth law changes, and theyve done it in the eurocretins courts as well.
They continue to ride over us roughshod every single day and yet what do most of us do? We sit and moan about it instead of taking it to these slime.
The apathy amongst the public wont ever change, theyre just a bunch of lazy bastards who want everyone else to do it for them.
You have a few choices.
Fight and at least be able to stand proud when you lose.
Run away and leave these pricks to their own devices.
Do nothing and just carry on talking about it.

One of the very best places to canvass support for our cause is any car show or car event because by their nature theyre kindred spirits.
Truckers have a massive ability to make their presence felt too, fuel protests for example.

Even if we all did something independantly of each other then itd add up to an effort thats not currently happening.
Until we stop with the dialogue and start making some noise then youll never get any changes, after all, actions speak louder than words.

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"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

they'd have to show that you moved in to the stop line after the light had turned red. They'd also have to go and re-paint all the faded cycles that are the incorrect size and location.

given that cycle advanced stops are not actually used by most cyclists other than to check before jumping the red light this looks like blatant revenue raising.

broken line at the side of the road seperating a cycle lane from the car lane is 'advisory' only. I regularly use them on the motorbike because they have been installed in stupid places. i.e. the subsequent narrowing of the road makes it unsafe to overtake queuing cars on the outside.

Its also questionable if the bay can be enforced if the advanced stop line is obscured by traffic.

What is the law on advanced stop lines anyway? As a car, I'm presumably supposed to assume that the first stop line is the one I've got to stop by if the traffic light turns red?

Does that mean that once I've passed it, I'm through the lights (even though I haven't physically passed either the lights themselves or the stop line actually at the junction?) and should keep going even if they then go amber? Have the gaps between my light going red and someone else's then going green been extended in order to take account of the extra?

The more I think about it the more I think our road system has become criminally complicated and yet the emphasis is always on more signage, more variations, more enforcement - never on simplification and education.

Ian

oh dear...

(please see other thread for my thoughts on these idiotic claims)

Do I have any volunteers wanting to ride into London with me just to see how wrong they are?
<rest of thought process snipped to protect the ignorant>

The highway code can be found here.

If you can you must stop at the first stop line. If you cannot stop in time for that one but can for the second, then you must stop at the second line.



Indeed. I hate these advanced stop lines. They're the worst possible situation and can only be intended to maximise congestion. On the rare occasion I cycle the last thing I want to do is overtake cars.

Does the article imply the authorities are planning on fining drivers for straying into cycle lanes that its not illegal to drive in, such as those bound by a broken white line? If so, how are the council going to fine people for driving legally?

Cycle lanes bound by a solid white line are a fairly rare. Its only these which could actually attract a penalty i assume, of course, other than advance stop lines.

There's a cycle lane near us, about two miles long. The council have admitted that the second mile is not a legal one!

(Doesn't matter, though, as I've never seen a bike in it!)

Said it on PH. already.


I would imagine lot of head-ons will be caused as a result. Ambleside come to mind. Carriageway for cars dangerously narrow. Cycle lane ist sucidal as not enough room for a bike anyway

Cyclists do not want to use these cycle lanes. Proof being the song und dance with the CTC over plan to change the "where practicable" to MUST DO! (Had more to do with compo though than safety from way they set about it. On that basis - I would have been like granite had I been in charge of the CODE. Ist a good job I am not then But I think they see point as how it come across by spouting compo problem before safety consideration. I would not have entertained on that basis. I can only then assume that the change of mind had little to do with the petition but more to do with serious discussion as to what a measure would achieve in term of safety. I sent argument in on that basis by the way I do not for one moment think a petition run by the CTC which elicited just 11,000 signatures did that much. Over 11,000 Mancunians have signed the MART petition after all If so few achieve this - then perhaps MART win already then I am sorry if I appear to pour bucket of cold water over CTC claims of victory - but 11K signatures ist really a spit in an ocean nationally. Something else cause change of heart there. I think serious discussion on key issues of safety und cost/practicality of providing lanes were more the reality - as well as recognition that existing lanes are .. er .. lacking in quality anyway

To the "lurks" who fasten on to what ist posted here und mis-quote/misinterpret deliberately failing to comprehend - ist being realistic as to reality behind such a decision. 11 thousand signatures achieving such change not credible when million sign other petitions on many much more important issues (not traffic ones - but really serious other issues which Joe Le Public really take to heart und no notice taken. Protest against Gulf War.. Council Tax (Pensioners) , Timely Refuse Collection, Banning Nuclear Energy etc all come to mind here. People in hundred thousands to millions united in Protest... but spit in wind.

You really think 11K CTC militant change? Oddly enough other people from PETROLHEADED mentality object to mindless cycle lanes. We'd rather have the cyclist where we can see them after all - not riding in kamikaze fashion from somewhere und nowhere all of a sudden from point where cycle lane creates serious pinch point or suddenly ends just where the road narrows

As for ASLs. I was in left hand lane filter tonight. ASL at lights for Ahead Only traffic. Lights green. Cars inch forwards as congested due to road works. Lights change. Car at 5 mph stop as there ist a Red Light Cam. He stop in ASL. NO cyclists in sight. It WET weather. Fewer ride around here in such storms after all But if this daft law come into force - that guy get a fine for not transgessing a red light but being caught through no fault of own in a peppermint box.

But there more stupidity on way: Doing away with Traffic Wardens und enforcing parking time on Pay/Display/Meters with a Gatso type scammer which send out a Parking ticket 14 day later if you overstay by seconds

I may think some Traffic Wardens would have enjoyed Leipzig at times having observed one rush to put ticket on car as we parked up und walked to Pay Meter once in Manchester's Spring Gardens on a visit there. It got cancelled on same day - we reported him. But even so - some are OK-ish.


Then there are plan to make RA illegal. They not making enough cash then RA warn of schools/blackspots und not just speed cam whereabouts.

Beside - I get this information from Prat websites/AA/RAC/Tom Tom anyways Mobile scams are advertised in press. Even the Swiss und all EU countries publish this information

I think then a dud law which serve to generate cash assuming it can actually be detected anyway That mean Policemen und cash. Unlikely then when they do their add ups und take aways then

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
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Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
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In the picture at the top...


The first "stop line" appears to go all the way across the road

...unlike the picture in the Highway Code...


So i would hope that any road user (cyclist or otherwise) was bound by the same rules that you can't cross the first line after the lights go red!!

I wonder if the cameras will be able to "fine" cyclists (who travel without number plates or licenses or insurance)???

Not very fair hey

mb