Safe Speed Forums

I found this on the BBC Wales news page. What do you think?

Villagers given police radar guns

Eight villagers will be trained to use police radar guns
Residents of a north Wales village are to use police radar guns to record vehicles which ignore a 40mph speed limit past their homes.
Drivers caught speeding by eight volunteers will receive warning letters from North Wales Police but the force will take no action against them.

People in Pentrefoelas in Conwy have said drivers' speed is a major issue.

It is the first time the project has been launched in north Wales although there are others elsewhere in the UK.

Two years ago, the villagers of St Brides Major in the Vale of Glamorgan became the first in Wales to be given a speed laser gun by police to try to catch motorists speeding through their streets.

It may remind some people that have been speeding that it may not be a villager who is holding the gun the next time, it could be police officer with the power to enforce

RoSPA

The eight-week Pentrefoelas trial on the A5 has been set up with the help of North Wales Police.

Locals met Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom in summer 2004 and told him that the long straight stretch of road, which cuts the village in two, means many motorists are tempted to race through.

As Pentrefoelas does not meet the requirements for a fixed speed camera, North Wales Police has agreed to lend a team of eight volunteers hand-held speed guns.

Working in pairs, the volunteers will record the registrations of anyone they catch speeding and pass the details onto the police.

'Mostly harmless'

The police will then send out warning letters advising drivers they have been caught speeding and urging them to obey the law in future.

Andrew Howard, head of road safety for the AA Motoring Trust, said: "I don't see it as anything that anyone should be getting outraged about. It's mostly harmless.

"It's a way that the residents can do something about these things.

"As long as we end up with a system where the volunteer with the speed gun does not end up with you getting points on your licence or a fine - that's the responsibility of a policeman."

Roger Vincent, of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: "If it is proven that there is a major problem in that area, it will back up the concerns that have been raised, but there is no substitute for real police officers doing the job.

"It may remind some people that have been speeding that it may not be a villager who is holding the gun the next time, it could be police officer with the power to enforce."

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

I hope the letters that get sent out don't mention the recorded speed, otherwise I can easily imagine the village high street becoming the local drag strip, with boy and girl racers competing to see who gets the highest "score" on their warning letter...

Personally I don't like the idea. If there is a genuine problem with speeding, it should be tackled officially by someone with the power to prevent it - stick a couple of trafpol cars at either end of the village for a few days and nab anyone caught speeding. What happens if one of these volunteers catches their neighbour speeding, do they pass on the details to the police and risk creating a neighbourly dispute, or do they ignore it and risk being found out as operating a biased system?

These schemes are ineffective and have a rather ugly habit of setting groups of people against one another.

First we need decent speed survey data, to find out if there's a real problem. If there is a real problem then it's usually an engineering problem.

If there's a real speed problem without an affordable engineering solution, then vehicle activated speed warning signs are a brilliant solution. They are proved to be 3 times more effective than speed cameras, work 24 hours per day and have no administrative overhead nor social fallout.

North Wales Police should be ashamed of themselves.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I don't agree with this practice of putting civilians on roads with speed guns myself. I have heard much about these speed activated warning signs, are there any in this country? or any plans to trial them Paul?

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

Thats OK.. Looks like "dads army" all over again.

Could start a craze for collecting the maximum number of warning letters.

I will be sure to give them a "wave" as I go by.....

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Speed camera policy Kills

I don't mean to be unkind, but the guys they had the TV news operating the speed guns, look like they are from dads army

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

"they don't like it up um"

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Speed camera policy Kills

"Don't tell him Pike"
(had best of Dad's Army on DVD for christmas )

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

There are loads of them aren't there? I thought they were everywhere?

There's a large scale scientific evaluation of them known as TRL548. It's here: http://www.trl.co.uk/static/dtlr/pdfs/TRL548.pdf

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

See this thread entitled "Community Speedwatch".

In my view these schemes are a very bad idea, not least because there is no way the volunteers can be relied upon to act even-handedly.

Biker with a noisy exhaust? We'll get him.

Mrs Jones from the Post Office in her Micra? Leave her alone.

I also suspect that, given that the schemes don't lead to prosecutions, the volunteers tend to lose interest before too long. I don't suppose many were out in this morning's howling gales.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

In the London/Thames Valley area they're certainly becoming more widely used, and crucially they seem to be used in the most sensible of ways. I'm not a big fan of the ones that simply flash up the speed limit and a "slow down" warning even if you're clearly below the limit (as the first ones I ever saw would do - entering an Oxfordshire village with the speedo needle below the 30 mark, and being greeted by a VAS telling me I needed to slow down because the limit was 30 ), but the ones I've seen more recently tend to be indicating an upcoming hazard that is worth knowing about (roundabout, junction etc.) as opposed to simply repeating the speed limit sign you just passed, and they aren't quite so sensitive to speeds just below/on the limit.

I remember seeing a very basic one years ago in south London. I'm not sure if I was even driving back then, must have been a good fifteen years back. I can't remember what message it gave or how sensitive it was, and it's long since been removed so I imagine it was experimental. I'm sure it didn't resemble modern smiley sids much.

I think the new ones exist in a few types. I haven't seen any of the speed limit reminder variety myself, but I've heard of them. However, in Hampshire between the M3 and Alton (can't remember the road number) I recently saw a few flashing up to warn of sharp bends ahead. Hat off to whoever put those up. They must have been speed activated since I didn't set any of 'em off , but then I was forewarned by someone else setting it off ahead of me. What they did do was give a clear warning of a specific hazard to anyone at an inappropriate speed. You could see it working from the brake lights coming on right after it lit up. Coming back I noticed they they seemed to be solar powered, so I reckon they're probably dirt cheap to run as well. And for those going slowly enough not to set it off it's a lot less obtrusive than a Gatso. In fact, since they warn of a hazard rather than a speed limit they probably don't even prompt the usual must-check-the-speedo response that Gatsos provoke among so many motorists. I expect most would simply lift off and/or apply light braking. IMO much better even than the limit reminder types. I'll have to see if I can find a picture as i don't think I've described it well.

Now why can't TPTB stick up 5 or 6 thousand of these?


Edit: Couldn't find a picture on the web, but I did find a couple of interesting PDFs:
http://www.southglos.gov.uk/acrobat/roadSafety/VASReport.pdf
http://www.trl.co.uk/static/dtlr/pdfs/TRL548.pdf

The TRL one has a photo (plate 3) of a sign very similar to the ones I saw near Alton.

Another edit:

Guess this would be one of the garden variety speed limit reminder sids. Somewhere in Norfolk, apparently. Can't see how giving half a dozen Dodgyscopes (TM) to some retired locals is going to have a better effect than these.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

We have several round here. Both the speed limit reminder types and the hazard warning type. One of the former is on the approach to a village in a 30 zone. From my own experiences it seems very effective. We also have the hazard warning type which warns of a sharp(ish) bend in a single carriage NSL. The warning is triggered at 55MPH which isn't unreasonable. The bend has seen several accidents where cars have gone straight on at the corner. Although I know one was a drunk driver who subsequently legged it and successfully claimed his car was nicked! Anyway I digress the signs do seem to work in my (local) experience.

Max

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Tailgaters - Please Pass
You have an Accident to go to!

Are you talking about the one at Burley? I think these signs are much more effective than cameras, and they seem to be spending time adjusting the speed it triggers at, when 1st installed they seemed to go off at 50mph. No substitute for teaching drivers to look at road ahead properly in 1st place though !

On subject of signing, what do you think of signs for 30 limit at Whitwell when approached from Empingham ? If you are following other vehicles then neither sign can be seen clearly until vehicle ahead enters limit. The one on LHS is hidden by trees, and because of the bend the one on RHS is directly obstructed by vehicle in front.

Is that new 50mph limit by Manton railway bridge legal? There are no repeaters, unless they have been hidden in bushes too.

Flippin heck mate, where do you operate? Theres loads of them in Hampshire and the M6 work crews have mobile ones that get erected near roadworks (i.e. every couple of miles )

Honsestly I've never seen one, and only ever heard of them sinse I joined this forum. I work and live in the Cynon Valley (south Wales), and lets be fair most people think the Welsh have only just discovered electricity
THese things sound a beter option though!

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

The world is getting-slowly but surely-madder. While we're at it we could give every member of public a free pair of handcuffs-to arrest criminals of course

Andrew

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

Yes I was talking about the one at Burley. Not really noticed the positioning of the 30 sign at whitwell although most people don't slow down until they get to the bottom of the hill (about 400yds inside the 30 limit!) unless they are behind me of course! The 50 at Manton; I agree, when did it become a 50 by the way? It's a lovely bend on a bike

Max

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Tailgaters - Please Pass
You have an Accident to go to!

Manton bend became 50 a few months ago, signs not clear from Oakham direction ( positioned before Gunthorpe ), clearer coming from Manton they are at bottom of hill before bridge and are on square, yellow background.

Been caught by the new cameras on the A47 near Skeffington yet???

I always manage to slow down in time on the bike on the way from Leicester to Morcott..

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Speed camera policy Kills